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Mike8fingers
12-03-2010, 06:58 AM
I am still very new to the game. (Checking rulebook almost every other turn over rule interpretation). 5 games with just started box, but last night we did our first 25 point battle.

Wraith Witch Deneghra poped her feat Web of Shadows. My hole unit + UA were in the effect area. Then Wraith Witch Deneghra cast Hellmouth on his Machine Wraith. He hit it and got 3 of my Doom Reavers were in the AOE. They all were hit and killed. I made 3/3 successful tough rolls. (First Tough rolls I ever made man I was happy, my friend not so much. lol). Now my turn comes and and I have the 3 Doom Reavers in melee range unlease on his Machine Wraith.

So thats the scenario that my questions revolve around. I will asked these question in the order that they came up.

1) Hellmouth removes models from play, I stated that Tough rolls resolve before the remove from play effect.

2) This is the more important question. Wile under Web of Shadows can I forfeit my movement / advancement to get up from the knockdown effect. (I can't remember if it was Hellmouth or Web of Shadows that Knocked me down) I did not need to change faceing to make my melee attacks on the Machine Wraith.

As you can read from the scenario I did make the attacks beacuse I saited that the feat said that during my advancement phase I could only change facing. My Doom Reavers were allready facing his Machine Wraith so I sacrificed my movement to get up and attack.

I know Advancement is any volentary movment. So that is what I won the dispute on, but after sleeping on it I think I may be wrong. I had an avancement phase but could only change facing does this mean I have 0SPD. If my SPD is 0 can I sacrife movement to get up from knockdown.

Thanks for your time I hope I gave all the needed information to answer my questions.

bmeier
12-03-2010, 07:09 AM
1: The remove from play effect triggers on the boxed stage. Tough triggers on disabled which is before the boxed step, so yes a model damaged by hellmouth will still be able to make its tough roll.
2: Web of Shadows states that enemy models suffer shadow bind which says that a model cannot advance except to change its facing. Since the model still has a movement to forfeit, it can forfeit it to stand up and since the model would not have had to change its facing, it can attack the Machine Wrath in that situation.

dhow tocor
12-03-2010, 07:26 AM
II know Advancement is any volentary movment. So that is what I won the dispute on, but after sleeping on it I think I may be wrong. I had an avancement phase but could only change facing does this mean I have 0SPD. If my SPD is 0 can I sacrife movement to get up from knockdown.

Thanks for your time I hope I gave all the needed information to answer my questions.

See this thread: Knocked down + Cannot advance (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?42593-Knocked-down-cannot-advance), especially the last post by Maudlin, one of the Infernals. We are still awaiting what the clause 'cannot move' means in the Forfeiture rules.

However, your SPD stat is not effected by the condition 'cannot advance' (Also, your SPD stat can never go below 1). But in your case, you can indeed forfeit your movement to stand up, but you cannot change your facing since that is considered movement.

Mike8fingers
12-03-2010, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the speedy answers. As well as the link to that thread. Just for reference how long does it normaly take an Inernal to get back. I am just wondering as his last post was 11-24-10. It has just been over week.

Thanks a again for clearing that up.

vintersbastard
12-03-2010, 10:23 AM
As well as the link to that thread. Just for reference how long does it normaly take an Inernal to get back. I am just wondering as his last post was 11-24-10. It has just been over week.

It varies.
But that thread doesn't apply to your question anyway. Shadow Bind still allows for some kind of movement (turning on the spot), so you clearly can forfeit that.

Mod_Redphantasm
12-03-2010, 11:06 AM
See this thread: Knocked down + Cannot advance (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?42593-Knocked-down-cannot-advance), especially the last post by Maudlin, one of the Infernals. We are still awaiting what the clause 'cannot move' means in the Forfeiture rules.

However, your SPD stat is not effected by the condition 'cannot advance' (Also, your SPD stat can never go below 1). But in your case, you can indeed forfeit your movement to stand up, but you cannot change your facing since that is considered movement.

This is really beyond his question. Because shadow bind still allows you to change your facing, you can still move and therefore still have a movement to forfeit.

Kuarnix
12-03-2010, 02:15 PM
Wraith Witch Deneghra poped her feat Web of Shadows. My hole unit + UA were in the effect area. Then Wraith Witch Deneghra cast Hellmouth on his Machine Wraith. He hit it and got 3 of my Doom Reavers were in the AOE. They all were hit and killed. I made 3/3 successful tough rolls. (First Tough rolls I ever made man I was happy, my friend not so much. lol). Now my turn comes and and I have the 3 Doom Reavers in melee range unlease on his Machine Wraith.


After reading this I feel inclined to add that in the situation presented, the Machine Wraith should have been killed by Hellmouth. The Doom Reavers can stand up and attack, but it wouldn't be there to attack :p

FerrusManus
12-03-2010, 03:10 PM
After reading this I feel inclined to add that in the situation presented, the Machine Wraith should have been killed by Hellmouth. The Doom Reavers can stand up and attack, but it wouldn't be there to attack :p

Unless there was 2 machine wraiths.

Mike8fingers
12-06-2010, 08:49 AM
Thanks for all the info. I took this to them to which they both said that you only have “half” of your available movement you could not sacrifice it to get the “full” bonus of standing up. Is there any info out there that states one way or the other?

Aetou
12-06-2010, 09:21 AM
The fact you cannot advance except to change facing doesn't mean that you don't still have a movement to forfeit. You just can forfeit it because you have it, so standing up or aiming while under the effect of Web of Shadows is just fine. Basically, Web of Shadows doesn't give you 'half' your movement it just gives you restrictions on how you can use your movement. It's similar to how a model under the Avatar's Gaze or Magnus' Killbox which have restrictions on how it can advance still retains its full movement despite those limitations.

brotherscott
12-06-2010, 09:25 AM
Thanks for all the info. I took this to them to which they both said that you only have “half” of your available movement you could not sacrifice it to get the “full” bonus of standing up. Is there any info out there that states one way or the other?

Your friends are incorrect. There is no restriction on forfeiting movement and movement penalties.

Please forgive that the following text is from the MK II pre-release .pdf, the text is correct in Prime MK II and Primal MK II. (on or about page 65)

"Forfeiting
Some rules require a model to forfeit its activation, movement, or action, or allow it to do so voluntarily for some benefit.

A model cannot voluntarily forfeit something if it is also required to forfeit it. A model cannot forfeit the same thing to multiple effects. For example, a model that is knocked down cannot forfeit its movement to stand up and also gain an aiming bonus for forfeiting that movement.

A model can forfeit its activation only before it activates in a turn. If it does so, resolve the effect to which the activation is being forfeited, then the model ends its activation, triggering any relevant effects. A model cannot forfeit its activation if it cannot activate. A model cannot forfeit its activation unless it is required to do so or has a rule that allows it to do so. Forfeiting a model’s activation does not trigger effects that take place at the end of movement and those that take place at the end of an action.

A model can forfeit its movement anytime before it moves. When a model forfeits its movement, resolve the effect to which the movement is being forfeited, then the model ends its movement, triggering any relevant effects. A model cannot forfeit its movement if it cannot move or does not have a movement available.

A model can forfeit its action anytime before it takes an action. When a model forfeits its action, resolve the effect to which the action is being forfeited, then the model ends its action, triggering any relevant effects. A model cannot forfeit its action if it cannot take an action or does not have an action."