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baronvonchaos
12-07-2010, 04:46 PM
Yes, another one, but hear me out.

I had this situation come up in a game. It sounded logical, but I can't seem to understand why the spell Menoth's sight would ever come into play.

1) Unless it's been changed, for Protectorate caster X to hit stealth model A with an arc noded magic attack when A is greater than 5" away, the CASTER needs Menoth's Sight in order for his spell to not automatically miss. Am I missing something?

2) It came up that a bonejack ran into a forest and was just out of melee range of a troop and arc'd a spell at my unit. If my unit was concealed as well as out of the LOS of the caster, can you still channel a spell to a model that the Caster can't see?

If #2 is correct, what would be the point of Menoth's sight. If all you need is the jack within 5" of model A, why would you ever use Menoth's sight for casting spells?

Aetou
12-07-2010, 04:57 PM
Line of Sight for channelled spells is determined from the node rather than from the caster. That means...

(1) Either the node needs to be within 5" of the target OR the node needs Menoth's Sight.

(2) As long as the node can see your troops it doesn't matter if the 'caster can.

To answer your non-rules question tacked on the end: sometimes you don't want to, or can't, get a node within 5" of your target. If you have a RNG 10 or 12 spell in particular the ability to arc it without stepping into charge range of the target ican be very useful.

NmoLvr
12-07-2010, 07:02 PM
A spellcaster can cast spells through any channeler in its battlegroup that is also within its control area. The spellcaster is still the attacker and the model casting the spell, but the channeler becomes the spell’s point of origin. This means that eligible targets and the spell’s range are measured from the channeling warjack and that the channeling warjack must have line of sight to the spell’s target. Channeling a spell does not require the spellcaster to have line of sight to either the channeler or the spell’s target.

If the spell is channeled, doesn't matter where the caster is.

baronvonchaos
12-07-2010, 07:03 PM
This makes more sense...

Thanks, Aetou.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-07-2010, 08:55 PM
Yes, another one, but hear me out.

I had this situation come up in a game. It sounded logical, but I can't seem to understand why the spell Menoth's sight would ever come into play.

1) Unless it's been changed, for Protectorate caster X to hit stealth model A with an arc noded magic attack when A is greater than 5" away, the CASTER needs Menoth's Sight in order for his spell to not automatically miss. Am I missing something?

2) It came up that a bonejack ran into a forest and was just out of melee range of a troop and arc'd a spell at my unit. If my unit was concealed as well as out of the LOS of the caster, can you still channel a spell to a model that the Caster can't see?

If #2 is correct, what would be the point of Menoth's sight. If all you need is the jack within 5" of model A, why would you ever use Menoth's sight for casting spells?

1. The caster needs to be affected by Menoth's Sight, because it is the caster that is making the attack and Stealth only comes into effect when making attacks. Putting Menoth's Sight on the arc node warjack will not help because you are only using the warjack for Line of Sight not for making the attack.

2. You do not use the Caster's Line of Sight when you channel a spell through an arc node. You use the Line of Sight of the Arc node model instead. So the bonejack needs to have Line of Sight to the target.

An Arc Node model is the point of origin for a spell that is channeled through it. If the Arc Node model is within 5 inches of the target model then Stealth will not work. Now if the Arc Node is greater than 5 inches away, you need to have Menoth's Sight on the warcaster to be able to ignore Stealth. This is because the warcaster is making the attack and Stealth only comes into play when making an attack.

tuttleboy
12-08-2010, 07:19 AM
Posts #2 and #5 have different answers for question #1. Would either of you guys mind posting a page number or link to a ruling to help support what you're saying?

This is a question that seems to come up once in a while and it would be nice to spread the correct ruling and back it up.

Dominar Eeyore
12-08-2010, 08:02 AM
The unknownmerc post #5 is the correct one

TheUnknownMercenary
12-08-2010, 08:08 AM
From Stealth:
When making a ranged or magic attack...
The arc node warjack is not the model making the attack. The warcaster is making the attack so the warcaster needs the ignore stealth.
Below is a link to an Infernal using True Sight as an example, which also allows a model to ignore Stealth, stating that the warcaster needs to have the ability to ignore Stealth because the warcaster is the model making the attack.
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?9124-Channelling-and-LoS&p=146465&viewfull=1#post146465

hidarezan
08-15-2011, 06:38 AM
"The warcaster is making the attack so the warcaster needs the ignore stealth."

But what if the warcaster doesn't have line of sight? As I understand it, the caster does not need line of sight to the target, OR needs an ability that ignores stealth because all that matters is the channeler (the arc node).

To quote post #5 in this thread, "If the Arc Node model is within 5 inches of the target model then Stealth will not work."

In order for a caster to hit target with stealth using a channeler, all the caster needs either of the following:

1. A channeler within 5" of the stealthed target.
2. An ability to ignore Stealth AND have line of sight.

Am I understanding this right?

Macallan
08-15-2011, 06:40 AM
Please start a new thread if you feel the need. This one is locked without a glance. Thread necro is bad.