PDA

View Full Version : Common mistakes regarding Cryx models and abilities



juckto
12-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Over in the Cryx faction subforum, blakeh1 started a thread to clarify a whole bunch of common misconceptions that new Cryx players have. Judging by the lack of replies to that thread recently, I'm guessing that it's "finished" and so I thought I'd share the end result with the uneducated masses (i.e. you :P).











Casters/Spells

Epic Skarre

Her feat prevents a friendly model from being targeted by an attack but it can still be trampled.
Likewise, you can be caught in an AOE or spray that was targeted at another model and still be caught under the template.


Ghost Walk / Ghostly

A model affected by this spell/ability can not move through models.
Ghost walk/Ghostly does not allow you to ignore line of sight requirements for charges, slams etc. For instance, you can't declare a charge against a model on the opposite side of a large solid building (even though you can move through the building).


Scything Touch
Affects all melee damage rolls, including Point Blank.

Black Spot

Garlack only gets one attack after each kill, not two.
Black Spot can not be used to gain an additional SPECIAL attack (such as thresher or combo strike).
Only one extra attack is generated from a Trample or a Thresh, no matter how how many enemy models were killed.


Epic Goreshade
Feat may not be used to create new units.

Goreshade
His feat (Dark Summons) is legal in Mangled Metal scenarios.



Warjacks

Seether

The Seether's special ability "Smash and Grab" can be used even if you attacked with your tusks. You can still attack with your tusks after performing the "Smash and Grab" (if anything is still in melee range).
Soul drive is worded "...this model is allocated 1 additional focus...", which means:

You can only give it a max of two additional focus from your warcaster. 4 focus Seethers can't happen sorry!
A Seether suffering from Disruption cannot gain a focus from soul drive.
An autonomous Seether (for instance, one created by the Withershadow combine) cannot gain a focus from soul drive.
A Warwitch Siren can give a focus to an autonomous Seether since it is not considered allocation



Deathjack

Although it has a 360 degree LoS, when making a double-hand throw it still has to throw models away from itself, as its own base blocks other directions.
In other words, it cannot choose to throw a model from one side of its base at something on the other side.
A Deathjack cannot cast spells with a range of SELF or CTRL.
The Deathjack has to use his own focus pool to boost spells that he casts, he cannot use his caster's focus.
Disruption does not strip a Deathjack of soul tokens, nor prevent souls turning into focus.
Deathjack souls, skulls, and focus allocation:
Souls are turned into focus before focus allocation.
Thus, they 'count against' the amount you can allocate to the Deathjack.
During focus allocation, you can not have more than 3 focus on a warjack as a result of focus allocation.
For example, if he had zero souls on him he may be allocated up to 3. If he had one soul on him it turns into one focus, and you can then allocate another two max (up to a total of 3). If he had 2 souls they turn into 2 focus, and you can allocate another one max (up to a total of 3). If he had 3 (or more) souls on him then they would turn into 3 focus (or more) and you cannot allocate him additional focus from your warcaster.
The Skulls of Hate occurs after focus allocation.
Because neither Souls nor Skulls of Hate turning into focus are focus allocation, either one can cause the Deathjack to go over the 3 focus limit.
Any questions, please check the rules thread about it here (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?25087-Cull-Soul-and-Focus-Allocation&highlight=deathjack+focus+allocation)
A Deathjack with a crippled cortex:

May not be allocated focus nor use focus. Thus it can't cast spells, boost attacks, etc.
May still gain focus from Skulls of Hate (but still can't do anything with the focus until it's cortex is repaired).
May still use Rendering.
If its cortex is repaired, it may immediately start using focus.



Reaper

If an effect (such as "Enliven") is triggered when a model is damaged, this occurs before the harpoon's "Drag" effect. This is because the "Drag" effect involves making an extra attack, and so occurs at step 12d of the attack sequence (detailed in Appendix A, page 245 of Prime).
As per the tactical tip in the Cryx faction book, when a model is dragged it must be pushed all the way to base contact with the Reaper (unless it contacts an obstacle, etc).
In other words, "Any distance" means "Any distance required to get into base to base".
For more info, see this thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?25185-Reaper-Drag-amp-quot-Tactical-Tip-quot).
After using the "Drag", the Reaper may make a single melee attack without spending focus.
After performing this melee attack, it may make additional melee attacks by spending focus as normal.


Harrower
When a Harrower threshes, all attacks are simultaneous. Souls gained from the first model threshed can not be used to boost attacks vs the second model threshed.

Nightmare
You can measure for the prey distance at the start of that model's activation. However, you could only measure up to 10" out from Nightmare's base



Units

Revenant Crew
They get the Gang Bonus on the Point Blank shot since it is a considered a melee attack and gang gives a +2 bonus to melee attack and damage rolls.
Likewise they would also benefit from Scything Touch or any other effect that modifies melee attack rolls vs granting a strength bonus.
They do not get boosted damage on a charge with the Point Blank shot (because the rules specifically mention that).

Revenant Cannon Crew
They can benefit from Rengrave's Veteran Leader ability and gain the +2 bonus.
They do not require LOS to Rengrave to get the bonus when making the attack. So yes they can see Rengrave through obstacles, terrain, clouds etc.
Basically they always get the +2

Necrosurgeon

Can have an unlimited number of corpse tokens.
May convert up to three corpse tokens into three mechaninthralls (at a 1-to-1 ratio) as a special action.
These new thralls must be placed in formation with an existing mechanithrall unit, you may not create a new unit.


Soulhunters
If they gain Incorporeal via activating in Darragh Wrathe's command area, it only lasts during their activation, not during the opponent's round.
As such, they will still be Incorporeal during their Light Cavalary movement.
Also see the Clarification of Light Cavalry movement (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?41882-Clarification-of-Light-Cavalry-movement).



Solos
Bloat Thrall
Its gun does not cause Continous Effect: Corrosion.

Pistol Wraith

You cannot Shake the effect of Death chill.
Death Chill does not stack. i.e. you can't shoot the same jack with with 2 pistol wraiths and Death Chill it twice to force it to lose movment and action.
If you're Incorporeal and a model is engaging you, as soon as you declare a ranged attack you will become corporeal and now be engaged (at which point you can not make ranged attacks outside of melee, although you can still be a gunfighter into melee).
In other words, if you end your movement where an enemy model is engaging you, you can only make gunfighter attacks against it. Watch out for enemy models with reach!


Machine Wraith
Machine Meld is a Special Action, and so it can not be used after running or charging.

Skarlock Thrall
The Skarlock can cast a spell during its own activation.
The warcaster is considered the origin for the spells. All this means is that you use the caster's Focus when rolling dice for magic attacks, and any upkeep spells the skarlock casts are upkept by the warcaster.
The skarlock does not need focus to cast a spell. It's simply a Special Action.
Because it's a Special Action, after casting a spell the skarlock's activation ends (unlike your warcaster).
Any effect that stops the skarlock from using it's action will prevent it from using a special action, and thus won't be able to cast spells.
A skarlock cannot cast spells with a range of SELF or CTRL.
A skarlock cannot channel spells through arc nodes.
A skarlock is not affected by Lamentation. Lamentation specifies that enemy spellcasters "spend twice as much focus to cast a spell", but a Skarlock does not spend focus when casting.


Scrap Thrall
If they charge then make a death burst attack, the damage is not boosted because the rules state "Instead of dealing damage normally".
This is further reinforced with the errata, which states "damage from death burst is unboostable".

juckto
12-07-2010, 05:38 PM
Whoopsie ... hit the 10,000 characters per post limit.











Miscellenous

"May not be charged"
Spells/effects that prevent a model being targeted by a charge attack (for example, eGaspy's Hellbound spell) also prevent the model from being targeted by a slam.
They do not prevent enemy models from trampling, walking into combat, or running into melee range.


Incorporeal does not allow you to ignore line of sight requirements for declaring charges, slams, etc. For instance, you can't declare a charge against a model on the opposite side of a large solid building (even though you can move through the building).
Incorporeal is lost as soon as a model with it declares an attack and it will not be regained until the next round.
Incorporeal is lost when the attack is actually made (i.e. dice are rolled). Not, for instance, when you declare a charge. As you make the charge move you're still Incorporeal and so can pass through terrain etc. If you charge and fail the charge, you remain Incorporeal.


Abomination affects friendly living models.


Attacks made with a ranged weapon using the Point Blank ability will count as normal melee attacks and will use MAT to hit instead of RAT.
This also means units like the Revenant Crew will benefit from Gang when making attacks using Point Blank.

Steamworks
12-07-2010, 06:11 PM
Reaper

If an effect (such as "Enliven") is triggered when a model is damaged, this occurs simultaneously as the harpoon's "Drag" effect.



This is incorrect. Drag generates an additional attack and so is resolved last (see the table p.245 Prime).

juckto
12-07-2010, 07:03 PM
Not neccessarily. The model may be dragged any distance. But yeah, I'll take a look when I get home.

Moknim
12-07-2010, 07:33 PM
Not neccessarily. The model may be dragged any distance. But yeah, I'll take a look when I get home.

That is the order that attacks are resolved in. It becomes important when the Menoth jack moves in front of an obstruction or another model with his enliven move, which he can't then be pushed through and thus he won't be dragged by the harpoon.

TheUnknownMercenary
12-07-2010, 09:24 PM
juckto, the rules forum is for asking questions not for what you have posted. What you have posted is what should be and is in the Cryx forums.
Also there are errors in it.
Seether: Nothing in the Smash and Grab affects the model's intial attacks so the Seether can go Claw-Claw-Smash-Tusk.
Deathjack: The focus gained from Souls is counted towards focus allocation. In fact the link provided even says this.
Reaper: The errata to Appendix A is not what tells you which ability goes first. The main attack seqeunce tells you when the abilties are resolved. Step 12B resovle active player effects that do not involve making an attack. 12C resolve inactive player effects (Enliven) 12D Resolve active player effects that involve making an attack (Drag).

Duckboy
12-07-2010, 09:33 PM
juckto, the rules forum is for asking questions not for what you have posted. What you have posted is what should be and is in the Cryx forums.
Deathjack: The focus gained from Souls is counted towards focus allocation. In fact the link provided even says this.


Seether counts towards focus allocation, not the deathjack as i do remember.

kaempfer0080
12-07-2010, 09:40 PM
Cool post. Very informative!

TheUnknownMercenary
12-07-2010, 09:45 PM
Seether counts towards focus allocation, not the deathjack as i do remember.
Yes the Seether's soul drive focus counts towards focus allocation but so does the focus that the Deathjack gains from souls. You need to check out the link provided in Junkto's post. It is stated there.
The reason the "soul" focus counts towards allocation limits is because the souls are turned into focus at the same time as when warcasters replenish their focus. So the Deathjack will have the focus from it's souls on it when it's controlling warcaster tries to allocate focus to the Deathjack. The amount of "soul" focus on the Deathjack limits the amount of focus the warcaster can allocate to it:
Zero "soul" focus, 3 allocated focus
1 "soul" focus, 2 allocated focus
2 "soul" focus, 1 allocated focus
3 or more "soul" focus, Cannot be allocated focus by warcaster.

Hjelmen0
12-08-2010, 02:16 AM
Not neccessarily. The model may be dragged any distance. But yeah, I'll take a look when I get home.

The model dragged must be pushed all the way into base contact with the reaper, unless it hits a model or obstruction. You cannot selectively choose the distance of that push.

juckto
12-08-2010, 01:17 PM
@Unknown. Sorry for posting this here, I thought it would be helpful for people who don't play Cryx, but do play against them.
Seether - I've been looking at the rules for Smash and Grab, and would actually agree with you. But for this I copied what others said.
Deathjack - Nothing I said in the original post contradicts what you said about souls.
Reaper - I see, I was thinking that you can interrupt the Drag effect between "after resolving attack" and "immediately push" and "after pushing". You're saying you can't do that, because the entire effect is applied at once.

@Hjelmen0

Drag - If this weapon damages an enemy model with an equal or smaller base, immediately after the attack is resolved the damaged model can be pushed any distance toward this model.

Kuarnix
12-08-2010, 01:36 PM
any distance


At some point, Macallan (IIRC, may have been another...M infernal...) defined any distance as "any distance necessary to bring it to melee range". Or something like that.

Hjelmen0
12-08-2010, 02:20 PM
At some point, Macallan (IIRC, may have been another...M infernal...) defined any distance as "any distance necessary to bring it to melee range". Or something like that.
Indeed. Maudlin did give a clarification on Drag, and "any distance" means "any distance required to fully push the target into base contact with the attacker, provided that it does not contact an obstruction or another model".

Juckto, read this thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?25185-Reaper-Drag-amp-quot-Tactical-Tip-quot) for confirmation. Post #5 gives the actual ruling/clarification, and the rest of the thread is a discussion of the wording, and not really relevant unless you want to fully understand why Drag works as it does.

vintersbastard
12-08-2010, 02:24 PM
At some point, Macallan (IIRC, may have been another...M infernal...) defined any distance as "any distance necessary to bring it to melee range". Or something like that.
This is what you're looking for:

If nothing stops the push, the target is pushed until it is B2B with the Reaper.
Hjelmen has the right of it.

vintersbastard
12-08-2010, 02:28 PM
Deathjack
[LIST]
Although it has a 360 degree LoS, it cannot choose to throw a model from one side of its base at something on the other side, as its own base blocks the throw.

Just a little note: while you're effectively correct, your basis is off.
Throws (including double-hand ones) always limit the direction chosen to the ones away from the thrower.

juckto
12-08-2010, 02:54 PM
Ah, I don't have the Cryx book, and so I didn't know about the Reaper's tactical tip that is referred to in that thread. Funny that it isn't in the rulebook.

@vintersbastard, to be nitpicky, The "direction away from the attacker" rule only appears in "Being Thrown", so if I'm not following the steps for "Being Thrown" I don't have to apply it.

To determine the direction of the double-hand throw, the attacker can either follow the steps for determining the direction of a regular throw (see "Being Thrown", previous) or simply throw the model at another model within the attacker's line of sight.

vintersbastard
12-08-2010, 03:17 PM
@vintersbastard, to be nitpicky, The "direction away from the attacker" rule only appears in "Being Thrown", so if I'm not following the steps for "Being Thrown" I don't have to apply it.

Here you go:

One handed or two handed, you mus throw away.

If you need more Infernal rulings, you just have to ask for them. Or use the search function yourself. :)

Macallan
12-19-2010, 02:58 AM
This is the rules forum. If there is a rule question here, please start a new thread and ask it as clearly and concisely as possible.