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Sinsect
01-07-2011, 06:56 AM
For a background on the discussion, see:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?38820-Measuring-movement

In short: Since the rulebook gives no clear answer as to how movement distances are measured, what is the infernal ruling on this? The alternatives, as I see them, are:

1: Once movement mode (advance/run) for a model is declared, measure it's maximum move distance and place it anywhere within. (Fast, but open to some guestimate abuse.)

2: Nominate a point and then move the model towards it until the point or the models movement allowance is reached. If the model has movement remaining, repeat until done. (Unfortunately encourages players to measure each models movement in tiny half-inch steps, seriously bogging the game down. Less of a problem in timed formats.)


3: Nominate a point and then move the model towards it until the point or the models movement allowance is reached. Model movement ends. (Somewhat hardcore, but with the least potential for abuse.)

There is a vague example in the rulebook showing how to turn a bend, but nothing conclusive.


Any Infernal willing to settle the matter? Or is this up to the individual event organizers / gaming groups own discretion?

rydiafan
01-07-2011, 07:07 AM
It is #2, and it is in the rulebook. There's a picture and everything. Unfortunately I am currently in an airport so I don't have my book with me. Somebody will be along with a page number, I'm sure.

EDIT: If I recall correctly the graphic is on the bottom of a right-hand page, and shows a model moving a few inches, then moving a few more inches at an angle to that. The point of the graphic is that the model is always facing the direction it moves, but it also demonstrates the use of incremental movement.

Halfhoot
01-07-2011, 07:10 AM
This will never be answered by an infernal as it's not a rule but how you go about carrying out a rule. The "rule" is that a model can move X number of inches. How you measure those inches are up to you and your opponent or possibly a tournament organizer. There is no rule issue here as the "rule" is extremely precise... ie a model can move X inches period.

That said I dislike number 1 because it annoys me to see somebody go around other models without actually measuring the full distance they are traveling. I also don't care for the whole bend the tape around curves thing. I prefer my opponent to measure out increments of straight lines until they reach where they want to be... it's much more precise.

greenlock
01-07-2011, 08:08 AM
Isn't the base rule about measuring, even though not mentioned it is implied since exceptions are mentioned, that you can't measure stuff in the game unless explicitly allowed by the rules? The movement rules, page 46 in prime, states that you determine the distance a model advances by measuring how far the front of a models base travels. That means you can't measure any more than you actually move which rules out option 1. All the sections on advancing reference that you may move up to your speed or something similar and not stating that you can't continue moving after stopping to turn or for any other reason (though there may be reasons for it, such as spell effects). This would rule out option 3 and leaving us with option 2.

Weaselcreature
01-07-2011, 08:24 AM
It's option 2.
1 is pre-measuring, which is not allowed.

Halfhoot: your dislike of the tape-measure bending could cause problems in a game with timed turns. The individual increments take a lot more time.

Bonehead
01-07-2011, 09:31 AM
Just and FYI on the tape-measure bending: At GenCon the PP organizers were definitely anti-bending for measuring.

DarkLegacy
01-07-2011, 09:51 AM
Just and FYI on the tape-measure bending: At GenCon the PP organizers were definitely anti-bending for measuring.

This is most likely going to be true for a good majority of conventions. The answer is #2 like Rydiafan pointed out.

Sinsect
01-07-2011, 09:59 AM
I find it strange that that the general consensus is as vague as it is in a game known for its precise and well-defined rules. I'm totally fine with movement measuring being an issue for the TO / local group, but it is something I'd have expected more from that Other Game than a from PP product.

Also, the no-bending issue is interesting. Gencon rulings ought to carry some weight.

DarkLegacy
01-07-2011, 10:00 AM
Also, the no-bending issue is interesting. Gencon rulings ought to carry some weight.
Bending allows a player to cheat around corners with it, so that's where that ruling comes in.

petegrrrr
01-07-2011, 10:50 AM
Bending can add a suprising amount of extra movement, which is why it is not allowed/discouraged at most tournaments and cons.

Incremental measurement takes more time, but is far more precise, and is the method outlined in prime as well.

TheUnknownMercenary
01-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Sinsect, post #2 in your link above tells you how to measure for movement, which by an odd struck of luck was my post and goes by exactly what the rulebook tells you to do.
What the rulebook and I have already stated is equal to your option 2 which rydiafan, greenlock, weaselcreature, DarkLegacy and petegrrrr have all agreed is the correct way. There is no "vague" measurement rules, the book is clear on how you measure and everyone has stated that is how it works and are in agreement.

tensteam
01-07-2011, 01:16 PM
Bending can add a suprising amount of extra movement, which is why it is not allowed/discouraged at most tournaments and cons.

Incremental measurement takes more time, but is far more precise, and is the method outlined in prime as well.
Well to be honest if you measure like 1" a time you might measure just a little too much after every measurement and end up covering a lot longer distance than it should. For me bending is hardly the end of the world. Any way you measure you can do it right or wrong.

ScottEBJJ
01-07-2011, 02:23 PM
Well to be honest if you measure like 1" a time you might measure just a little too much after every measurement and end up covering a lot longer distance than it should. For me bending is hardly the end of the world. Any way you measure you can do it right or wrong.


The problem is if you bend your tape measure you will never be able to accommodate for your base size. You could cheat on your increment measurement, but that measurement style can be accurate.

You could cheat with both, but you will always cheat if bending. No TO, convention or local, should let you do it.

Macallan
01-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Answer is 2. You can bend the tape all you want as long as you do not move farther than you would have without bending it.