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jking_3rd
01-16-2011, 08:55 PM
Ok, so I did a lil search-fu, and found a few postings on the Cyclone & strategies.

One that caught my eye was about how the *Action is worded such that, it seems the Cyclone can lay down the Templates & they remain in play for one whole round, regardless of what happens to the Cyclone. One example cited, said it can even lay the templates down if it's engaged as long as it can see the Centerpoint of the AoE in its LoS.

So, I'm curious about the following tactics:

--1) When running Kraye, a Cyclone w/ Full Tilt can legally declare ride-by attack, move forward 5", lay down the templates, then retreat back 5". Thus, leaving the templates outside of its effective 10" RNG.

--2) Caine/Strker upkeeps Snipe on the Cyclone fmor a previous turn. The Cyclone lays down its templates w/i its now 14" RNG. But when the Caster activates, it re-casts Snipe on another unit, effectively removing Snipe from the Cyclone, and reducing its RNG back to 10".

in both cases, I'm just curious whether or not I'm correct in assuming the Templates remain in play.

Thanks for the replys.

Darkangeldentist
01-16-2011, 09:37 PM
You are correct about it's interaction with the spell 'Snipe', you can place the templates up to 14" away and they will remain for one round even if the jack loses, snipe is pushed or even knocked down. It is important to remember though that this cannot be done by a gun mage officer marshalling cyclones via 'rune shot' because that effect occurs when you make an attack, not the weapon itself.

However because it is an *action you cannot place covering fire as part of a ride-by-attack. Ride-by-attacks specifically state that you make your combat action and *actions do not count. (A combat action being either a melee or ranged attack.) Although the cyclone can place covering fire despite full tilt's stipulation about no ranged attacks because it is an *action rather than any form of ranged attack.

Another way of artificially increasing the range of covering fire can be done with both Nemo's, although the epic form is much better. The cyclones activate and place their covering fire and then when Nemo activates he uses energiser/locomotion to move them up to 3" back. Lastly eHaley can telekinesis them back 2" as well.

JPGREAT1
01-16-2011, 11:35 PM
wow I always thought of cyclone as a useless unit that is replaced by 2 trencher chain gun crew and a grenadier but what you have listed here with Kraye... is just ****ing genius!

frozenwastes
01-16-2011, 11:39 PM
I thought Kraye's speed increasing spell meant you couldn't fire ranged weapons? Or does it just say ranged attacks?

Kuren
01-17-2011, 12:09 AM
Just ranged attacks, that's why covering fire works with full tilt since its technically not a ranged attack.

maxxev
01-17-2011, 02:59 AM
So the cyclone works even if it's been knocked down.... lol seems like a bit of an oversight there!

vintersbastard
01-17-2011, 04:08 AM
So the cyclone works even if it's been knocked down....

A knocked down model cannot make actions, so that's a no.

Or were you wondering whether the AOEs remain on the tabel? In that case, the AOEs get removed only under the conditions stated in the ability, of which becoming knocked down is not one.

Wishfullthinker
01-17-2011, 04:37 AM
A knocked down model cannot make actions, so that's a no.

Or were you wondering whether the AOEs remain on the tabel? In that case, the AOEs get removed only under the conditions stated in the ability, of which becoming knocked down is not one.

I think he was saying that the cyclone can activate, place the covering fire,then get knocked down. The covering fire will still blast anything that goes through it, even though the model initiating the action is knocked down.

maxxev
01-17-2011, 05:13 AM
Yes thank you that is what I was enquiring, I don't play Cygnar so this is interesting to note from the point of view that one guy at the club has a Cyclone.

In turn based play, it makes no sense.... but if we imagine the game was real time, I guess it makes some sense.

Cheers

Agamemnon
01-17-2011, 07:40 AM
If a Cyclone lays down covering fire... the only thing that can remove that template is if the Cyclone that placed it is destroyed.

maxxev
01-17-2011, 10:02 AM
If a Cyclone lays down covering fire... the only thing that can remove that template is if the Cyclone that placed it is destroyed.

ok now that makes NO sense.... I could understand the real time vs turn based thing, but we are now saying, if he's on his back it works, if he's taken out that turn it does not.... WHA?....

Meh whatever lol, not every rule is perfect.

Agamemnon
01-17-2011, 10:51 AM
Yes it is also nice to note that he can lay down covering fire if engaged.

Another nice side note.... eSkare can not nullify the covering fire by placing a token on him or anyone else since he is neither making a ranged or melee attack.

All in all the Cyclone has become one of my favorite jacks thanks to these little shenanigans.

jonconcarne
01-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Ummm, with Kraye, I don't think you can lay down his templates as part of a ride-by attack because they're not technically an attack. I may be wrong (meaning I'm gonna go dig out Prime real quick), but it just seems strange. Also, can you really use the Cyclone's covering fire when he's engaged? It's a special action on a ranged weapon, not a special action on the model.

Interesting side note though, the Cyclone can have a 14" covering fire template with Snipe from a caster, but not from the Snipe Rune Shot from the Arcane Tempest Gun Mage UA because the latter specifies when making an attack, which covering fire isn't.

Edit:
Per this thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?1605-Sorceress-Ride-By-amp-Special-Attacks-Actions&highlight=ride+special+action) (about the Legion Sorceress model), you can't make a special action in your ride-by attack. No infernal response in it, but it was closed after 1 response.

From the Kraye ride-by attack thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?43742-Kraye-ride-bye&highlight=ride+special+action):
Ride-by Attack
The model makes a full advance and can halt its movement at any point to make its combat action. Do not resolve abilities that trigger when the model ends its normal movement at this time. After it ends its combat action, the model resumes its movement.
Therefore, a model making a ride-by attack triggers end-of-action effects before end-of-normal-movement effects. A cavalry trooper making a ride-by attack must complete both
its movement and its combat action before the next model begins its normal movement.

I think the key point is that your action is different from a combat action.