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Darguth
02-03-2011, 10:13 AM
I have a question regarding the bonus provided by Shield Wall and the simultaneous nature of damage inflicted by AOE's (or other things such as Sprays or which state they are simultaneous).

In the given scenario with models A, B, and C where they are set up in a straight line like the following:

(A)(B)(C)

If model B is hit directly by an AOE attack such that models A and C are indirectly hit, and the opponent chooses to resolve the damage on model B and model B is destroyed, would models A and C retain the Shield Wall ARM bonus for the damage against them since the damage is meant to be simultaneous (i.e. they would take the roll when model B is still there, technically)? This question is meant to extend to any sources of damage that could impact multiple models simultaneously, but I figured AOE is probably the most obvious example.

Thanks!

quindraco
02-03-2011, 10:19 AM
The last time I played this (it came up because I was using shatterstormed widowmakers on houseguard halberdiers), my opponent presented the following argument, which I found compelling, so I granted him the armour bonus:
"I don't lose the ARM bonus until my model is removed from the table".

Since shatterstorm happens at the boxing step, the model is still on the table. Same applies to a spray, regular AOE, etc - still on the table at the time the damage happens. So the ARM bonus applies to the shot that took out the ARM bonus.

rydiafan
02-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Due to the simultaneous nature of an AOE or spray, the models would not lose the ARM bonus until the attack is completely resolved.

Dicedog_dt
02-03-2011, 10:33 AM
I don't have the book in front of me by doesn't shield wall say something to the effect of "models in btb gain +4 armor. Shiel wall lasts for 1 round.". This would imply you only need to be in btb when shield wall is granted, not for as long as models remain in btb.

Of course this is from memory so I could be completely wrong.

rydiafan
02-03-2011, 10:41 AM
Of course this is from memory so I could be completely wrong.

You are. :p

You're right about the "lasts for one round" but are forgetting that it also states "while in base-to-base contact."

Dicedog_dt
02-03-2011, 11:47 AM
Fair enough. Last time I try to post these from memory :)

Darguth
02-03-2011, 01:30 PM
Additionally, if something grants you a bonus on your first attack during an activation and you use an attack which actually generates multiple simultaneous attacks...does the buff apply to all of them? I am asking this for my Cygnar friend so I apologize if I don't have the exact scenario, but it has something to do with his light 'jack with a chaingun for one arm and he's curious if those all count as his "first attack" since they are simultaneous?

rydiafan
02-03-2011, 01:48 PM
Only your first attack is your first attack. Even though they are all simultaneous only one of them qualifies for whatever "first attack" effects there are.

However, if one attack generates multiple attack and/or damage rolls (like an AOE or a spray) they are all part of the first attack.

vintersbastard
02-03-2011, 02:15 PM
If a bonus applies to the first attack (e.g. Fire for Effect), it will apply to all attack rolls.

If a bonus applies to the first attack roll (e.g. Deadeye), it will apply only to the first attack roll you choose to make.

As Cygnar does not have access to Fire for Effect at the moment, I can safely presume to say that your friend is out of luck. (:()

rydiafan
02-03-2011, 07:12 PM
The thing to be very careful of is something which generates multiple attacks (like Thresher) and something the generates multiple attack rolls (like a spray) are not the same thing. That is why Fire For Effect would affect all damage rolls of a single AOE attack, but not all damage rolls of a model with Rapid Fire.