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View Full Version : Can Someone Explain Intervening Model and Any Relevance It Has?



mughzee
02-25-2011, 07:53 PM
Hey, so as far as I know, Intervening models do nothing in mark II. Am I missing something? I see models with arcing fire that ignore it. I just read Fiona the Black's Nonokrion Brand spell.....but when does if even give the effect. Models within 1" of another model are considered intervening, but they don't get bonuses. they don't block LoS, they don't get cover the model intervening doesn't become the new target...what's the point of it and why would they give abilities to MK II models specifically for it if there's no point to it?


Thanks for any insight. it's got me really frustrated. I don't see anything in Prime on it other than this model is an intervening model

rydiafan
02-25-2011, 07:54 PM
If you can't draw line of sight to a model you can't attack it. Intervening models can block line of sight to models the same base size as themselves or smaller.

TheUnknownMercenary
02-25-2011, 08:06 PM
In the game an intervening model is just a model whose base is crossed by the line of sight from attacker to target.

In terms of game effects, An intervening model CAN block Line of Sight. That is the only thing an intervening model does. The problem is that you can draw Line of Sight from the attacking model to the target model from any place in the attacking model's front arc. So if you draw Line of Sight and it goes through another model's base, that model, which is an intervening model, is blocking "that" Line of Sight, so you now have to draw Line of Sight from a different portion of the front arc to see if you can get one that does not cross the intervening model's base.

A model that ignores intervening models does not have to worry about if the Line of Sight crosses the base of another model.

Also remember that models that have a smaller base then the target model are still intervening models but they do not block Line of Sight.

Usually it takes more than one model to block Line of Sight to another model unless you have them lined up perfectly. Usually players line up models in base to base contact and have another model in the back that is the same size or smaller than the base to base models in the front and this will block Line of Sight to the model in the back. This is a simple example of how you would use an intervening model(s).

mughzee
02-26-2011, 06:12 AM
so All Intervening models will ever do is block LoS to models on the same size or smaller, but as long as you can connect just a sliver of LoS from a base to a base you got los with no penalties and if you have an ability that lets you ignore intervening models they're just saying you can target anyting in LoS and in range regardless of models present.

Lanz
02-26-2011, 06:21 AM
so All Intervening models will ever do is block LoS to models on the same size or smaller, but as long as you can connect just a sliver of LoS from a base to a base you got los with no penalties and if you have an ability that lets you ignore intervening models they're just saying you can target anyting in LoS and in range regardless of models present.

That is basically it.

It applies more often than one might think. A cloud of small-based infantry, for example, is very likely to be blocking most LoS to any other small bases behind them.

Caeldan
02-26-2011, 01:36 PM
Don't have the rulebook handy on me - but isn't there a rule for intervening models and melee combat? Something to the effect of +2 defense for the target - really only might come into play for reach models attacking a larger base size though.

TheUnknownMercenary
02-26-2011, 01:47 PM
Don't have the rulebook handy on me - but isn't there a rule for intervening models and melee combat? Something to the effect of +2 defense for the target - really only might come into play for reach models attacking a larger base size though.

That is incorrect. There is no such rule.

Caeldan
02-26-2011, 03:39 PM
Okay... gonna go back and read the section when I get home in about an hour.
Might be something that I've gotten confused with from my first demo game ever that was done without a rulebook (and from someone who was relatively fresh with the rules themselves).

dv8guy
02-27-2011, 11:42 AM
If the shooting model is a large base is he able to see over the small based interviening models?

Mantractor
02-27-2011, 11:56 AM
You're probably thinking of terrain.

If you make a melee attack against a model past terrain that obscures their base they get +2 DEF. An example is if you have Reach and you attack a model over one of those passable terrain features that would grant Cover. ( not a wreck marker though )



Back on topic though, Intervening Models is a very important aspect of the game. If LOS is denied then you can't target the model. That's what makes Arcing Fire such a great ability. Unless someone is within 1" of a model that would normally block LOS, you can shoot them! Even if they do get in tight, if you're using an AOE you can get blast damage!

Try to think of Intervening Models as cloud effects of various sizes. Unless you have an ability that allows you to negate them, you can't shoot models on the other side unless you have a direct line.

Like... 2 heavy warjacks B2B beside each other and a small-based warcaster in the middle in B2B. Since the bases are round, I think you actually have to flank PAST the warjacks in order to get a shot.

Mantractor
02-27-2011, 11:57 AM
If the shooting model is a large base is he able to see over the small based interviening models?

No.

A special case is the rule Tall in the Saddle. It allows you to do things like that. Otherwise, Large-based models target regularly. Thing is, you can target a large-based model through bases smaller than it, but not the other way around.

jandrese
02-27-2011, 04:34 PM
The only time the large base model will be able to see over smaller (or equal size) bases is when it is elevated relative to the other models.