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Ger
04-25-2011, 05:05 AM
A Warjack that is immune to being Stationary is KD in Shallow Water. What happens?

Normally- a warjack that is not immune to being stationary would be stationary until it's furnace is restarted...

::EDIT::
Just realized after a search (which I should have done before posting) that this issue may be Infernal: Checking at present.

majortusk
04-25-2011, 06:12 AM
how would a warjack be immune to stationary? I cant think of one that is atm.

Edit: I completely forgot about the Covenant NVM :)

vintersbastard
04-25-2011, 06:28 AM
how would a warjack be immune to stationary? I cant think of one that is atm.

Edit: I completely forgot about the Covenant NVM :)

It gives immunity vs. Knockdown as well, so that's a moot point.

Kypt
04-25-2011, 08:11 AM
A Warjack that is immune to being Stationary is KD in Shallow Water. What happens?

Normally- a warjack that is not immune to being stationary would be stationary until it's furnace is restarted...

::EDIT::
Just realized after a search (which I should have done before posting) that this issue may be Infernal: Checking at present.

If you're immune to KD and you get "KD'd" in shallow water nothing happens as you CAN'T be KD. Now, if you're only immune to stationary and you get KD'd that would be the checking part. I just wanted to clarify

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 08:21 AM
WOW, I thought you went inert in water not stationary, that does change things. I you are immune to stationary, you would not become stationary, that's it.

vintersbastard
04-25-2011, 09:40 AM
A Warjack that is immune to being Stationary is KD in Shallow Water. What happens?

It would probably be helpful to find a rule that prevents becoming stationary without providing knockdown immunity. I don't know of any yet.

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Is Unknown Merc ok?, I didn't think rules threads could go this long.

SpellBinder
04-25-2011, 10:15 AM
In an effort to try and answer the OP, a 'jack that is knocked down in shallow water becomes Inert. Granted being Inert is like being Stationary, but they are two different things.

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 10:20 AM
In an effort to try and answer the OP, a 'jack that is knocked down in shallow water becomes Inert. Granted being Inert is like being Stationary, but they are two different things.

That's what I thought, but I looked it up and the book says "stationary." There may be an errata I am unaware of, but that is the rule. It should be inert, it is not.

majortusk
04-25-2011, 10:23 AM
I do not know of an effect that will make a warjack immune to stationary effects by itself without granting no Knockdown.

so that argument may be invalid from the get go

SpellBinder
04-25-2011, 10:33 AM
Come to think of it, I think you're right majortusk.

And in doing some reading, I guess my memory was off in that Inert actually isn't an effect.

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 10:34 AM
I do not know of an effect that will make a warjack immune to stationary effects by itself without granting no Knockdown.

so that argument may be invalid from the get go

Why do you keep trying to invalidate the argument? Whether or not this abitity exists, the answer should be clear. I would never assume I have such a complete understanding of the game to know everything that may be possible to do.

If a model is immune to stationary and suffers the stationary effect (as it seems water does) the model is not stationary. That answers the question, the legality of it is another debate.

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 10:36 AM
Ignorance is never a valid argument.

SpellBinder
04-25-2011, 10:44 AM
Well, searched through the list of abilities in my army roster sheet and there are several abilities (and at least one mini-feat) that either grant immunity to or shake off the effect of being Stationary. Thing is these either apply to units only, or grant immunity to both being Knocked Down and being made Stationary at the same time.

wazatdingder
04-25-2011, 10:48 AM
A Warjack that is immune to being Stationary is KD in Shallow Water. What happens?



That is the question asked. I get your arguments as to the validity of it, but they are not necessary to answer it.

rydiafan
04-25-2011, 10:58 AM
That is the question asked. I get your arguments as to the validity of it, but they are not necessary to answer it.

If something is illegal within the game there is no need to debate what to do when it occurs. That's like asking what to do when a model has two conflicting friendly upkeeps on it, as it cannot happen.

SpellBinder
04-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Validity aside, taking this right out of Prime Mk II, page 88:

"A warjack that is knocked down in shallow water has its furnace extinguished and is stationary until its furnace is restarted."

By that alone, if a warjack cannot be made stationary due to whatever ability and/or bond that grants this immunity, then said warjack that is knocked down in shallow water is not stationary and can be used the following round as normal.

NmoLvr
04-25-2011, 11:02 AM
I agree with you right up until your last few words.

There are two effects caused by the shallow water. One is stationary, and the other is your furnace going out. If you're immune to stationary, you would still need to restart the furnace before the 'jack can be used again normallly.

Edit: Before anyone else points it out, I freely admit I'm arguing intent here. Your furnace being out isn't a defined game effect.

majortusk
04-25-2011, 11:09 AM
I agree with NmoLvr.

Halfhoot
04-25-2011, 11:12 AM
There's nothing really to debate here... the answer is: "It's being checked on by Infernals." When they get back to us... we'll know.

rydiafan
04-25-2011, 11:15 AM
There's nothing really to debate here... the answer is: "It's being checked on by Infernals." When they get back to us... we'll know.

Where's the Infernal post?

Halfhoot
04-25-2011, 11:21 AM
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?59178-Furnace-Extinguished&p=811086&viewfull=1#post811086

majortusk
04-25-2011, 11:37 AM
Honestly a different argument here. Similar situation though.

vintersbastard
04-25-2011, 12:24 PM
That is the question asked. I get your arguments as to the validity of it, but they are not necessary to answer it.

Because a situation that cannot happen in the game (at all, ever) doesn't need an answer. Perhaps the designers even wrote the rules exactly this way to avoid the situation you described in your original post, but we don't know about that.

Lanz
04-25-2011, 01:45 PM
I agree with you right up until your last few words.

There are two effects caused by the shallow water. One is stationary, and the other is your furnace going out. If you're immune to stationary, you would still need to restart the furnace before the 'jack can be used again normallly.

Edit: Before anyone else points it out, I freely admit I'm arguing intent here. Your furnace being out isn't a defined game effect.

'furnace going out' is not an effect. There are no rules for what it does. In the context of this rule, 'furnace going out' is explained as becoming stationary, which the warjack is immune to in this interaction. So sure, 'the furnace goes out', which does nothing because the model is immune to stationary. Unless there are rules elsewhere for an independent result of a furnace going out, then that bit of text is irrelevant except for explaining why the 'jack has been made stationary.

Ger
04-25-2011, 02:25 PM
I am also unaware of any example of a jack immune to only stationary and not immune to KD as well. For that matter the jacks I can think of that are immune to stationary and KD also happen to be Amphibious and thus ignore the effect for that reason as well.


Regardless it's another twist to the scenario. Immunity first -> KD in shallow -> ?? Vs KD In shallow-> Stationary removal -> ?

I simply realized the two questions, while linked, are separate questions and thus deserve their own threads. THEN it occurred to me to search the issue and realized that the case of Shake Effects is still checking at present.

PS: I'm not entirely sure every rules question requires finding specific examples to ask. Even if it's a moot point a greater understanding of the rules can be valuable.
PPS: Given the tone of this topic so far and the fact we are unlikely to get an answer. I really see no reason to continue this discussion unless folks have some constructive things to add....

TheUnknownMercenary
04-25-2011, 04:46 PM
If someone can find an ability that makes it so that a warjack cannot be made stationary without the "cannot be knockdown" as well, I will glad look into the question. Send me a PM, because at the moment I cannot think of a single model that has only the "cannot be made stationary" ability without also including the "cannot be knocked down".

Asking about a "What if" scenario when it cannot actually happen in game is not really a valid question beacuse it could never happen.