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View Full Version : Takedown vs. Dark Dominion feat (Hexeris)



zee
05-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Hi all, I just wanted to ask for a quick clarification on the co-occurrence of these two rules. Takedown has two parts, it says the model hit loses tough, and the second part says that when the model is boxed , the model is removed from play. Hexeris's feat says that when the model is boxed, it is healed one damage point and gets to make one advance and make an attack. Then the feat text says that the enemy model is removed from play.

Both effects seem to trigger at the same time, but one wants to remove the model from play immediately, and the other wants to play around before RFPing.

As I recall, the turn player chooses which of simultaneous effects to resolve first. My question is are these effects really on totally equal footing, so that Hexeris gets to trigger Dark Dominion, and then RFP happens along with anti-tough?

Iff
05-11-2011, 11:05 PM
Yes, you're mostly right.

When you deal enough damage to a model, it first goes to disabled. This would be the step where Tough kicks in, but this will be negated by Take Down. After Disabled, the model moves to boxed. Since you have two of your abilities triggering off the same event, you can choose which one goes first. If you choose Dark Dominion, you get to advance and make the attack as specified in the feat. After that, the model is removed from play, also as specified in the feat. The remaining part of Take Down will not take effect anymore, since the original model isn't in play anymore.

moob
05-12-2011, 12:29 AM
Since Dark Dominion generates an attack, wouldn't it happen after Take Down? (or not happen, since take down RFP's).

Iff
05-12-2011, 12:34 AM
Since Dark Dominion generates an attack, wouldn't it happen after Take Down? (or not happen, since take down RFP's).
I don't think so. That method of determining priority is only used in step 12 of the attack sequence, which happens after the attack is resolved. Both Take Down and Dark Dominion trigger on Boxed, which is part of step 11, during the attack. Because of that, I think the active player gets to choose which effect (Take Down or Dark Dominion) happens first).

Edit: To say I'm not sure. I'm going by the PDF's here at work, and that part of the sequence may have changed in the final book.

Nalik
05-12-2011, 09:33 AM
"turn player chooses which of simultaneous effects to resolve first."

That's the key. If it's my turn my Takedown will trigger first, if it's a free strike on your turn then you get to pick.

Bladestorm
05-12-2011, 09:51 AM
This question is answered by the attack main sequence timing chart on P 237 (primal) which states that effects which remove from play occur at step 12(a) whilst effects which involve making an attack occur at step 12(d) thus take down would go first.

The mentions of the active player simply choosing which effects go first are also incorrect as per the errata:

p. 236. Appendix A.
Add the following to the end of the second paragraph:
At any time two or more abilities are triggered at the same time,
such as ?attack hit? or ?end activation,? the active player chooses
the order in which abilities on his models resolve, then the inactive
player chooses the order in which abilities on his models resolve.This tells us that the active player's effects always go first, but they can choose which of there own effects trigger first if they have multiples. Then the inactive player activates there effects and chooses the order if they have multiple effects.

vintersbastard
05-12-2011, 02:06 PM
This question is answered by the attack main sequence timing chart on P 237 (primal) which states that effects which remove from play occur at step 12(a) whilst effects which involve making an attack occur at step 12(d) thus take down would go first.
This would be correct if Take Down and Dark Dominion were effects that were resolved at the "after the attack is resolved" step, but they are not. Both effects resolve during step 11.4 of the attack resolution ("boxed"). So you use the general order of effect resolution (i.e. Active Player before Inactive Player).


The mentions of the active player simply choosing which effects go first are also incorrect as per the errata:
This tells us that the active player's effects always go first, but they can choose which of there own effects trigger first if they have multiples. Then the inactive player activates there effects and chooses the order if they have multiple effects.
For the two effects in question to interact at all, they both have to be Active Player effects (as Dark Dominion only triggers during Hexeris' turn, against enemy models), so this point is moot.

zee
05-12-2011, 08:32 PM
Thanks all, for the very rigorous notes. I'm pretty confident in applying this rules interaction in game now.

Maudlin
05-13-2011, 06:07 AM
Question answered.