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Tal0s
05-16-2011, 09:10 PM
If you choose Backswing with the Demo Corps, or are running the Great Bears, do both the attacks from Backswing get the charge die (or just one of them)?

Since both attacks are simultaneous with backswing. . . you get the picture. :P

hausdorff space
05-16-2011, 09:23 PM
First attack gets the charge die (not both).

But/Also (and I could be wrong on this - but I think I saw a ruling a while back), both attacks must be declared before any dice a rolled (i.e. declare both attacks before making the first one).

Tal0s
05-16-2011, 09:29 PM
That makes sense. It'd be kind of a **** move to be able to say "Oh, I rolled a hit on the first attack, so I'm gonna backswing".

So you say "I'm backswinging", charge, get the 3rd die on the extra attack roll and after resolving that attack resolve the other one.
Thank you

ChainGun
05-16-2011, 10:31 PM
Also, the attacks are simultaneous, so models which have rules which trigger after a model is hit (Enliven, for example) are hit twice before their special rules kick in.

airmanspaz
05-16-2011, 11:30 PM
You declare the target of both attacks, but should you kill your target with the first attack you can target another model in range with the second.

Mustakrakish
05-17-2011, 01:17 AM
You declare the backswing after the charge, not before. So you say I'm charging, make the move, check melee, say "I'm going to use the *attack backswing, swing at the charge target, then you can use the 2nd attack against anything in your melee range. You don't have to declare both attacks up front.

That's how I understand it at least.

Pickles
05-17-2011, 01:51 AM
No it's the way Chaingun said (though I had not thought through the consequences as regards Enliven etc).

hausdorff space
05-17-2011, 02:09 AM
You declare the target of both attacks, but should you kill your target with the first attack you can target another model in range with the second.A lot of previous rules threads are in debate over that. If they're truly simultaneous attacks, then both hit (damage) rolls are made at once; so if you kill with the first attack, then you waste the second.

Seventhprophet
05-17-2011, 03:24 AM
This post made me dive into the rules forum this morning. Seems like you do need to declare both targets after the charge movement. Then roll both to hit rolls, then both damage rolls, boosting the first. I have been doing it wrong :(

gliep
05-17-2011, 03:38 AM
A lot of previous rules threads are in debate over that. If they're truly simultaneous attacks, then both hit (damage) rolls are made at once; so if you kill with the first attack, then you waste the second.

Thats the way it is ruled. IMO there should be an Infernal-Answer for that somewhere. But my Search-Fu is weak.

The Captain
05-18-2011, 04:10 AM
Thats the way it is ruled. IMO there should be an Infernal-Answer for that somewhere. But my Search-Fu is weak.
The Tactical tip in the Khador book says that Backswing attacks are simultaneous, too.

Tekanan
05-18-2011, 06:14 AM
A lot of previous rules threads are in debate over that. If they're truly simultaneous attacks, then both hit (damage) rolls are made at once; so if you kill with the first attack, then you waste the second.

This is true. I'll reiterate that if you kill the first, you've wasted the second... only if you targeted both attacks to the same model.

My rule of thumb: when resolving backswing attacks, always declare your targets before making the attack roll.

silverpuppy
05-18-2011, 07:40 AM
Remember with simultaneous attacks......... you roll ALL attack rolls and then you roll ALL damage rolls. you do not declare targets and then roll there resolutions seperate of each other.

Agamemnon
05-18-2011, 07:43 AM
Remember with simultaneous attacks......... you roll ALL attack rolls and then you roll ALL damage rolls. you do not declare targets and then roll there resolutions seperate of each other.

What??????

This is a melee attack not an AOE.

Tekanan
05-18-2011, 07:50 AM
Remember with simultaneous attacks......... you roll ALL attack rolls and then you roll ALL damage rolls. you do not declare targets and then roll there resolutions seperate of each other.

If you declare your targets before rolling, it's pretty much the same thing... as long as you resolve any effects 'simultaneously'. I consider it as a "shortcut".

RedWynd
05-18-2011, 07:56 AM
This looks like it was answered in post #2 folks. And I think the bit about simultaneous attacks is mostly to prevent effects from triggering until all attacks have been resolved, such as the tip in the book on page 244 about the Bond of Brotherhood ability not triggering until damage is resolved for all affected models.

Mustakrakish
05-18-2011, 09:11 AM
Well then, learned something new today! Thanks.

Alviaran
05-18-2011, 09:32 AM
What??????

This is a melee attack not an AOE.

How does that matter?

Thresher and Blood Reaper are both simultaneous attacks. Blood Reaper on the Lord of the feast is very specific because he can gather corpse tokens from living models he kills, but because the attacks are simultaneous, he cannot gain any of the corpse tokens until everything resolves, so he cannot spend them to boost the Blood Reaper attacks.

silverpuppy
05-18-2011, 10:13 AM
@Agamemnon, correct it is not an AOE but it is simultaneous. they resolve the same. Doesnt matter if its melee or rangeded or aoe.

@tekanan, short cuts are fine i use them just as you but for the rules forum side i try to keep it clean and "by the book" :)