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Gedaning
01-15-2010, 11:48 AM
On some spells/abilitys on models it says that ranged attacks automatically miss it. I assume this also applys to ranged AOE direct hits since its still a ranged attack. However, does this also apply to models in the AOE but not a direct hit(ether do to divination or just within the AOE but not direct).

For example The Wrack says that as long as there is a focus point on it, ranged attacks automatically miss it. But can it be hit by the blast damage (1/2 pow) of the AOE? My guess is it still does not hit but I just want to make sure.

Drillermaniac
01-15-2010, 11:58 AM
Yes it can.

Gedaning
01-15-2010, 12:14 PM
what do you mean blasts damage from aoe's do hit models that say that ranged attacks automatically miss?

Avecrien
01-15-2010, 12:29 PM
Everything is automatically hit under that template. You aren't rolling to hit to miss on. Something only gets out of blast damage if it has a spell or special ability negating blast damage.

Every model with any part of its base covered by the AOE template
is hit, but not directly hit, by the attack and takes a blast
damage roll. Deviating AOE attacks never cause direct hits
even if the point of impact is on top of a model.

Askew37
01-15-2010, 12:36 PM
what do you mean blasts damage from aoe's do hit models that say that ranged attacks automatically miss?

Rather what he means is that blast damage COULD hit a model in this situation.

Say I aim a Scattershot from Herne and Jonne at a model/unit with stealth from more than 5 inches away. The attack automatically misses, but the AOE template(s) still automatically deviate and if they land on those models, it means instant blast damage.

That is why models like this (especially H&J with their three 3' AOE templates) are great for taking out high defense/low armor units.

petegrrrr
01-15-2010, 12:43 PM
Blast damage is not a "HIT".


That is why it still does damage. You are never directly "hit" by blast damage. It is just damage. Like Collateral damage. Their is no roll to "hit", so their is no hit, just the damage.

Valander
01-15-2010, 12:48 PM
Also, from p. 61 (in the prerelease, don't have my Mk II Prime at work, but should be same page):



If one rule causes an attack to hit automatically and one
causes it to miss automatically, the automatic hit takes
precedence over the automatic miss. For instance, an effect
that allows attacks to hit automatically would override
special rules such as Stealth that would otherwise cause an
attack to miss automatically.


Blast damage says that all models under the template are automatically hit. This trumps the automatically missed rule as the quote above shows.

Gedaning
01-15-2010, 01:07 PM
ok nice i guess that how I will deal with wrack since I can pretty reliably shoot of 4 aoe's per turn (or more then that if I use eSorscha's Shatter storm spell after killing a nearby model:)).

brotherscott
01-15-2010, 01:09 PM
The difference in wording is "Directly Hit" versus "Hit".

In Gedaning's example with the Wrack, ranged attacks automatically miss. A normal ranged attack will miss every time as long as there is a focus on the Wrack. A ranged AOE attack will automatically miss, but will deviate according to the deviation rules on pg 59-60 of Prime: MK II. Models under the AOE are hit and suffer a blast (1/2 POW) damage roll and any effects that can occur (such as Fire).

It works the same way with Stealth models.

Avecrien
01-15-2010, 01:11 PM
Throw some of their jacks at it. :D

Gedaning
01-15-2010, 01:34 PM
ok one more question of you directly hit a model, that can be hit with ranged, with an aoe and the Wrack, in this example, is within the aoe but not directly hit, can the wrack still take blast damage even if the aoe does not deviate?

Valander
01-15-2010, 01:41 PM
ok one more question of you directly hit a model, that can be hit with ranged, with an aoe and the Wrack, in this example, is within the aoe but not directly hit, can the wrack still take blast damage even if the aoe does not deviate?

Yup. Regardless of how the AOE template gets onto the Wrack (or anything else for that matter), it hits them. So, without something specifically saying immune to blast damage or something like that, the above rules apply.

TheUnknownMercenary
01-15-2010, 01:50 PM
A model directly hit by an AOE (this is the model targetted and successfully hit by the AOE) suffers the POW of the attack and any effects from the attack, including critical effects. Any other models in the AOE will suffer blast damage and any effects from the attack unless an effect states it only effects a model directly hit.
If an AOE attack deviates any models, including the model that was targetted by the AOE attack will suffer blast damage (1/2 POW of the weapon). These models will suffer any effects from the attack EXCEPT those that effect the model that was directly hit (since the attack miss there is no model directly hit) and you cannot apply critical effects to the attack because the attack missed and critical effects only work when the attack does a direct hit.

Gedaning
01-15-2010, 06:58 PM
very nice (and this is y I have 4+ aoe's :)) of course no good player would put a hitable model near a whack because of this (and the risk of catching there own model in the blast). So I guess I'll have to fire them with my aoe's and hope that at least one deviates to the wrack (gada love carpet bombing :))