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Verthantine
07-09-2011, 12:46 PM
I was wondering if eyeless sight would allow a spray attack to hit a fully obscured target for example a wall of jacks that a warcaster is hiding behind?

wazatdingder
07-09-2011, 12:49 PM
No, a spray does not need eyeless sight to hit so if you target a jack the guys behind it are fair game. Eyeless sight allows you to TARGET the guy behind the jack though.

Valander
07-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Sprays ignore other models for LOS anyway, and are only blocked if the attacker's LOS is completely blocked by terrain. (See Primal, p. 60). Eyeless sight has no effect regarding intervening models, only forests and cloud effects.

Edit:

No, a spray does not need eyeless sight to hit so if you target a jack the guys behind it are fair game. Eyeless sight allows you to TARGET the guy behind the jack though.
No, it doesn't. Eyeless sight does not allow you to ignore intervening models for LOS (Primal p. 33).

tort
07-09-2011, 04:25 PM
Close. When making a spray attack without eyeless sight you need line of sight to the primary target (all normal targeting rules apply) and you then centre the template over that target. Then you make attack rolls against every model under the template except those who are completely blocked by terrain (from the source of the attack). So if the caster is hiding behind jacks you have to target one of the jacks. You could hit the caster though despite having no line of sight as long as they were at least partially under the template. You don't ignore intervening models to target you ignore when determining what models are hit.

Eyeless sight lets you ignore could effects, forests, concealment and stealth. All of which are irrelevant in this example. It would however allow you to target a caster behind a cloud effect or 3" of forest. You could still hit the caster in those examples without eyeless sight if you had line of sight to something and the spray template when centred over that model was over some part of the caster's base.

jking_3rd
07-09-2011, 04:39 PM
You pick a target in the front line, in this case the wall of jacks.

Pick one that gives you the most advantage, one that will allow you to hit other targets in the path as well.

Ghorghor
07-12-2011, 01:53 AM
When picking the target, can you check with the spray template to see which target allow you to hit the max number of target?

Thanks,

Ghor²

Crate123
07-12-2011, 02:27 AM
No, you pick a target and then you place the template so you have to work out on your own which would be the best target.

CircleOfKhador
07-21-2011, 10:42 PM
Hi.

Yesterday I had a game with a friend of mine (both newbees and still fighting against the rules most of the time) with Khador against Legion. He made a spray attack with his Carnivean against my Iron Fang Pikeman who coverd my Marksman (with stealth). His spray attack had 8'' on the IFP and nearly reached the MM.
Is it possible to hit the MM with this spray? He was under the template, but the with stealth he can't be hit by any attack out of 5''? Is it like AOE attacks?

Thanks for your help.

Iff
07-21-2011, 11:24 PM
If the Marksman is under the template, it can be hit. Spray attacks specifically say they ignore stealth, so this attack will not be an auto-miss. The carnivean makes a normal attack roll against aything under the template.

CircleOfKhador
08-03-2011, 02:32 AM
And what about, if the Marksman was the target? The spray ignores stealth under the template, but is it possible to get a spray attack with the marksman as the direct target? Or does the spray attack miss automatically?

Devilsquid
08-03-2011, 03:31 AM
Eyeless Sight and Sprays have nothing to do with each other.

Eyeless Sight lets you ignore forest, clouds, concealment and Stealth.

Sprays allow you to ignore stealth, cover/concealement,the melee penalty for shooting into combat, and intervening models.


To the OP: To answer your question, Eyeless Sight has nothing to do with being able to hit someone behind a wall of jacks with a spray Template. Spray Templates can do that on it's own.

vintersbastard
08-03-2011, 10:36 AM
And what about, if the Marksman was the target? The spray ignores stealth under the template, but is it possible to get a spray attack with the marksman as the direct target? Or does the spray attack miss automatically?

Stealth doesn't prevent targetting the model with Stealth. Sprays do not miss automatically due to Stealth.

Anyway, please refrain from resurrecting a thread, especially one that was undead already. Just create a new thread with your specific question.

Bishop84
08-03-2011, 10:49 AM
Sprays ignore other models for LOS anyway

Not quite. Other models don't block the line of EFFECT of a spray, but nothing about spray attacks lets you ignore intervening models for LOS.

Valander
08-03-2011, 11:46 AM
Not quite. Other models don't block the line of EFFECT of a spray, but nothing about spray attacks lets you ignore intervening models for LOS.

There is no such thing as "line of effect." Double check Prime, p. 60:


A model under the spray template cannot be hit by the attack if the attacker's line of sight to it is completely blocked by terrain.
Which means, other than for the initial targeting, any models under the spray template do effectively ignore other models for LOS for rolling for hits. I do see how my comment could be a little misleading, however. So, to be clear:

You need LOS to the declared target of the spray. Models under the spray template other than those with LOS blocked by terrain, have attack rolls made against them, regardless of intervening models blocking LOS to them.

Bishop84
08-03-2011, 12:17 PM
I realize there's nothing called "line of effect" in the game. That just meant that intervening models don't block the spray template when determining models hit. I was just trying to clarify that having a "jack wall" won't protect models behind it from sprays, but you still can't outright target the model behind the wall.

Your comment of "Sprays ignore other models for LOS anyway" was misleading. Intervening models still block LOS when placing a spray template, but LOS is irrelevent when determing models hit by a spray template unless the LOS is blocked by terrain. Looks like you summed it up very well there in your latest post.