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malice
07-10-2011, 03:48 PM
A situation came up at a game today at our local store, and seeing as how im the only one with access to these forums i got asked to present the problem.

To keep this simple a warbeast had slammed an opponents warjack, the slam was successful and teh warjack was moved x inches away.

hte question is the warbeast doing the slam ended its movement in its mellee range of other models. THere was a dispute whether or not the warbeast got the rest of its initial attacks, or imidiately had to start buying more attacks with fury.

I cant remember all the arguements for both sides, but would he have to buy any further attacks against the models still in his mellee range or be allowed to finish his initial mellee attacks after the slam vs different targets.

And along the same line once in a while where once you attack one model then due to an affect moves to attack another model, do you still get the rest of your initial attacks or have to start buying more.

like erebus where he has two initial attacks and has overtake, does he have to make both his initial attacks before opting to make the overtake move, or does once he move for overtake causes him to forfeit his other initial attack.

drachenfels
07-10-2011, 03:55 PM
power attacks make you forfeit all initial attacks, after performing a power attack you may purchase additional melee attacks with either focus/fury against anything in your melee range.

Overtake does not cause any loss of attacks just grants an additional move after killing a model. it will not prevent him from making further initial attacks or from buying additional attacks afterwards.

malice
07-10-2011, 04:14 PM
is there a page refernace you can give towards the power attacks causing you to forfeit your initial attacks, cause i cant find it and i have some rather stubborn players who need to see it in writing lol.

SpellBinder
07-10-2011, 04:27 PM
It would take a few pages to piece it all together.

Prime Mk II, page 48-49: Combat Actions. Details power attacks being as both a melee attack and a special attack, and that special attacks take up all of your initial attacks. In the same section it also states that you can make one initial melee attack with each melee weapon, divided among any number of eligible targets you want.

Prime Mk II, page 51: Power Attacks. Simply to note that Slam is listed as a power attack.

Hope this helps.

juckto
07-10-2011, 05:02 PM
is there a page refernace you can give towards the power attacks causing you to forfeit your initial attacks, cause i cant find it and i have some rather stubborn players who need to see it in writing lol
Read the section on "Combat Action". Basically, you can choose ONE of:
* Initial attack(s)
* Special attack
* Power attack

malice
07-11-2011, 03:36 PM
i understand that but at the same time you can charge a target which is a power attack and still get the rest of your initial attacks after resolving the charge attack, which is why we are having this arguement. so there are some contradicting rules.

sleet01
07-11-2011, 03:43 PM
No, you can't. If you make a power attack, you don't get any initial attacks. You can buy further attacks, or you can get additional attacks for free due to some spells and abilities, and in some specific instances you can get a free power attack *after* your initial attacks hit, but you don't get any initial attacks after a power attack.

Edit: perhaps you are thinking of Countercharge? That lets a model make a charge attack outside of it's activation, which means that it can activate later and get all of it's initial attacks, but that's a completely different situation.

malice
07-11-2011, 03:46 PM
im not dissagreeing with you guys, im just trying to put referances together to convince them of what has been said, so im going back through the rulebook to try and get page numbers to piece it all together.

sleet01
07-11-2011, 03:50 PM
i understand that but at the same time you can charge a target which is a power attack and still get the rest of your initial attacks after resolving the charge attack, which is why we are having this arguement. so there are some contradicting rules.

This is 100% in disagreement with the rules *and* the answers so far, so perhaps you should provide the reason you think this is possible so that we can more easily persuade you.

DoktorVivi
07-11-2011, 03:55 PM
i understand that but at the same time you can charge a target which is a power attack and still get the rest of your initial attacks after resolving the charge attack, which is why we are having this arguement. so there are some contradicting rules.

Charge attacks aren't power attacks. They're actually part of movement, on pg. 46.

Pg. 51 lists all power attacks, none of which is the charge attack, and even specifies that you cannot use a power attack when you charge.

malice
07-11-2011, 03:59 PM
actaully im the one arguing at my store that you have to buy more attacks after a power attack, its the fact theres one guy thats very pig headed and stubborn we have come out, and if i cant in black in white prove that hes wrong, then theres no reasoning with him.

on page 49 it says you have to use your combat action to do one of the 4 options, make inital attacks, initial ranged attacks, a special attack (allowed by its special rules), and a power attack. it says that a power attack is both a melee attack and a special attack. Which im assuming as you guys have stated uses up all your initial attacks to perform.

and since a charge isnt a power attack its mearly you running into combat, you can only make your initial attacks or a special attack allowed by your weapon.

Is that correct.

malice
07-11-2011, 04:01 PM
yeah i realized that after i sent that what i ment was they were comparing a slam to a charge since you essentialy make the same movement of your speed plus 3 inches.

DoktorVivi
07-11-2011, 04:03 PM
on page 49 it says you have to use your combat action to do one of the 4 options, make inital attacks, initial ranged attacks, a special attack (allowed by its special rules), and a power attack. it says that a power attack is both a melee attack and a special attack. Which im assuming as you guys have stated uses up all your initial attacks to perform.

Yes, special attacks take up all your initials, so if you power attack, you lose all your initials because they're special attacks.


and since a charge isnt a power attack its mearly you running into combat, you can only make your initial attacks or a special attack allowed by your weapon.

Is that correct.Yep.


yeah i realized that after i sent that what i ment was they were comparing a slam to a charge since you essentialy make the same movement of your speed plus 3 inches.

Ah, ok, I can see where one might think that a Slam is the same as a charge because they're superficially similar, but the pages mentioned should clarify that for the guy in your group.

malice
07-11-2011, 04:08 PM
thank you for all the help juckto sleet and doktor

juckto
07-11-2011, 04:08 PM
Yes, that's correct. Key point being


on page 49 it says you have to use your combat action to do ONE of the 4 options

As to not being able to do power attacks after charging, that is covered by the rules on charging if I recall correctly. Something along the lines of "after moving the charging the model, the model must use its action phase to perform a combat action, and must select either initial melee attacks or special melee attacks"
Since it doesn't say you can select power attack, you can't select it.

malice
07-11-2011, 04:12 PM
just to give you an idea of how stubborn he is, there were three of us arguing with him that at a tournament you bring one faction and 3 casters, he still believes regardless of our efforts that he can bring 3 casters from different factions. I'd like to see what they would do to him if he brought balder (circle) ehaley(cygnar) and asphyxious (cryx) to a tourny for his casters.

sleet01
07-11-2011, 04:21 PM
Sounds like a wonderful person. May I suggest letting other people play against him for a while? :)

malice
07-11-2011, 04:22 PM
actually i refuse to play against him cause he is so stubborn and im pretty sure he cheats.

SlaveOneD
07-11-2011, 05:19 PM
You mean the good men and women of this forum wasted brain activity and well thought out responses for a stubborn cheater? :P