PDA

View Full Version : Bane Thrall's Dead Rise - is it automatic?



juckto
08-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Granted: Dead Rise - While this model is in play, after resolving continous effects during your Maintenance Phase, knocked down models in its unit stand up and stationary models are no longer stationary.

As I look at that rule, it just happens and I don't need to declare it. If I forget about it until after Maintenance Phase is over it doesn't matter, because it happened "automatically".

Or did it?

RedWynd
08-12-2011, 06:34 PM
Yes, it is automatic.

Skipping something automatic and doing it afterwards is a hinky situation and depends on the chivalry of your opponent.

juckto
08-12-2011, 07:09 PM
You don't understand what I'm asking. I'm asking, well. Look at it this way:

If I cast an upkeep it automatically expires on the old unit. If I forget to remove the spell token on the old unit until afterwards, does it stay on the old unit because I "skipped it"? No, you remove the spell token and say "Whoops".
In the same fashion, shouldn't I just remove the knocked down token and say "whoops".

Alviaran
08-12-2011, 07:39 PM
Yes, it is automatic.

Skipping something automatic and doing it afterwards is a hinky situation and depends on the chivalry of your opponent.

The thing is, a "must" effect generally means you rewind the game state to correct it. If it is a "may" effect that is requiring some choice from the player (such as upkeeping a spell like juckto says) and you forget, oh well. That's your mistake and the spell is removed because the cost wasn't paid. You had a choice and through your negligence made your choice. An effect that always happens though is something different altogether.

juckto
08-12-2011, 08:46 PM
I wasn't talking about the "choice of upkeeping" so much as the "forgetting it must expire on old unit", but otherwise yeah.

A different, perhaps better, example would be resolving continuous effects - if both you and your opponent forget they need to be resolved until you're halfway through your turn, does that mean you wouldn't resolve it?

TheConstantWay
08-12-2011, 09:37 PM
It seems like you're asking, "What is the rule for what happens when a rule is ignored?" Sounds like something to be worked out between the two players. The rules can't exactly say what happens if you ignore (/forget) them.

Personally, if the Thralls' knocked-down state hasn't impacted gameplay yet, I don't think your opponent really has any ground to stand on if they try to play Gotchya! and claim that your Thralls are still knocked down. However, if you've already been playing through your turn and you somehow benefited by their knocked-down state (to avoid blocking LoS or something like that), then I think you would be obligated to rewind things as much as possible.

In a way, it would be like forgetting to roll focus for the Avatar or eButcher. Does that mean they have zero focus that turn? Of course not. Make the roll, move on with the turn.

juckto
08-12-2011, 09:51 PM
Well, in this case to resolve the effect all you have to do is declare that you're resolving the effect. There's no rolls, no movement, no measurement.

So do I really need to say the words "I resolve Dead Rise"?

Hell, I might just teach myself to say "I resolve all other effects that need resolving" before starting my turn, to cover my ***.

+Edit. Or teach myself to remember Dead Rise. That could work too.

RedWynd
08-12-2011, 11:03 PM
IMO, it depends on your opponent being a good sport. Forgetting to resolve an automatic effect depends entirely on the players.

And/or the TO.

tuttleboy
08-13-2011, 12:00 AM
IMO you don't even have to declare that it resolves as it's an automatic effect that happens at a set time no matter what. Here's what the rule on the card says:

Granted: Dead Rise-While this model is in play, after resolving continuous effects during you Maintenance Phase, knocked down models in its unit stand up and stationary models in its unit are no long stationary.

Nothing in that rule says you have to declare that you resolve it, it just happens at the appropriate time.

nachtnebel
08-13-2011, 12:48 AM
You do not have to declare Dead Rise, but you should remove the knocked down or stationary tokens.
If you forget about it until after Maintenance Phase it's up to you and your opponent or the TO how to handle it, there is no explicit rule that tells you what to do. But in my book it would be fair to ask your opponent if you could resolve Dead Rise afterwards or not.

Macallan
08-13-2011, 04:23 AM
Yes, it is automatic.

Skipping something automatic and doing it afterwards is a hinky situation and depends on the chivalry of your opponent.
Not much to add.