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Astraal
10-27-2011, 04:52 PM
How exactly does Kara Sloan's Refuge spell interact with the Assault order, as it applies to the free ranged attack? Could you declare an assault, move your distance, shoot something, and then benefit from Refuge to move an additional 6" before making your melee attack?

IE Move+3 --> Shoot --> Move --> Melee --> Move, assuming hits on your attacks.

Or is the ranged attack considered a "bonus attack" that occurs before the unit's combat action (the melee strike), so they could
move --> shoot --> Melee --> Move, assuming they hit something?

I hate to have to ask, since if it works the first way I'd hate to publicize this particular trick into public knowledge ;)
Alas, I'd think someone else would have thought of it and asked first, though.

Edit: Come to think of it, I guess this is really just asking for clarification on the definition of "combat action" in Refuge. Does that qualify as "the combat action wherein the hit took place" or "the phase of the turn designated 'combat action' where any and all attacks happen"? I imagine the second, otherwise you could get a warjack leapfrogging around the battlefield with extra attacks. Attack, free 6", focus for another attack, take another free 6"... which is silly.
I'd been hoping to use a RAT, take the free 6", then use focus for MATs, though.

Uratoh
10-27-2011, 05:01 PM
Refuge triggers on hitting with any attack, but the movement doesn't occur until after the entire Combat Action is resolved, so it would be Assault, Melee, then move.

juckto
10-27-2011, 05:50 PM
but the movement doesn't occur until after the entire Combat Action is resolved,
That seems like an odd trigger. Are you sure it doesn't resolve "after the attack is completed"?

Uratoh
10-27-2011, 06:07 PM
When target friendly Faction model hits an enemy model with an attack during its activation, immediately after its combat action ends the affected model can make a full advance. It cannot be targeted by free strikes during this movement.

jking_3rd
10-27-2011, 06:55 PM
It seems to me, that the OP is getting confused about the game definition of 'combat action'.

If you review the Combat Phase of your player turn, as written in the Prime book, you'll discover that it encompasses all possible attacks. And that b/c the spell specifically says that the movement takes place after said Combat Action, that the movement happens afterwards.

The real juicy bit is the Free Strike antiphon.

bStyker
10-27-2011, 07:15 PM
I guess I'm just curious as to what model you intend to use refuge on where it benefits in a big way. To me, the best model in the Cygnar Army would have to be... well... Katherine Laddermore. And, it would benefit her quite nicely. 11" Assault, plus Reach, then moving 8 more inches after that with no free strikes. Hmmm...

Astraal
10-27-2011, 08:24 PM
Yeah, my confusion fell on a few things there. "Its combat action" could have referred to either the action where the hit took place (Mat OR Rat) or been referencing the 'combat action' phase of an activation.

My hope was to feat, Assault with a full (Base + UA + 3 gunners) unit of Stormblades, and cover somewhere between 14 and 20 inches before Melee'ing.

Charge (Move 5+3), Ranged attacks (assuming hits, 6" move), feeding the free shots from the Feat to a different stormblade trooper who _might_ get a free 6" from it (I know the errata says the shot takes place outside the unit's activation, but since the entire unit activates simultaneously, it COULD be argued this particular shot would happen while the unit was still resolving its activation, thus another free 6"), and then resolve their melee attacks.

That's a charge of 20", depending on how you finagle the rules. Say the Feat shot happens out of activation, and doesn't trigger Refuge... it'd still be a charge of 14". Works halfway decently with any hybrid jack, too. I was thinking the Stormclad, to go with the stormblades.

But yes, I don't have a strong opinion on how I think it should work. 2 free moves is hard to argue, 1 free move seemed plausible but overpowered; but we've NEVER known certain units/combinations to be overpowered! /sarcasm.

Uratoh
10-27-2011, 08:56 PM
Kara's feat only gives free shots to models in her battlegroup, and free shots are only triggered by models in her battlegroup.

If a model with the Assault order charges and does not end its movement in melee with its charge target, it is allowed to make its Assault ranged attack, but then its activation immidiately ends, regardless of other factors, as it failed a charge.

juckto
10-27-2011, 09:40 PM
StuffHuh. I have never seen that trigger.

leo_neil316
10-29-2011, 09:19 AM
Yeah, my confusion fell on a few things there. "Its combat action" could have referred to either the action where the hit took place (Mat OR Rat) or been referencing the 'combat action' phase of an activation.

My hope was to feat, Assault with a full (Base + UA + 3 gunners) unit of Stormblades, and cover somewhere between 14 and 20 inches before Melee'ing.

Charge (Move 5+3), Ranged attacks (assuming hits, 6" move), feeding the free shots from the Feat to a different stormblade trooper who _might_ get a free 6" from it (I know the errata says the shot takes place outside the unit's activation, but since the entire unit activates simultaneously, it COULD be argued this particular shot would happen while the unit was still resolving its activation, thus another free 6"), and then resolve their melee attacks.

That's a charge of 20", depending on how you finagle the rules. Say the Feat shot happens out of activation, and doesn't trigger Refuge... it'd still be a charge of 14". Works halfway decently with any hybrid jack, too. I was thinking the Stormclad, to go with the stormblades.

But yes, I don't have a strong opinion on how I think it should work. 2 free moves is hard to argue, 1 free move seemed plausible but overpowered; but we've NEVER known certain units/combinations to be overpowered! /sarcasm.


Ow ow ow.

Okay. 'Combat action' is defined in the rulebook. Check the summary in the back.

Refuge is 'target friendly faction model' so that means you can only have it cast on one model.

Kara's feat is quite specific 'When a model in Sloan's battlegroup.. etc ranged attack etc..' a battlegroup is defined in the rulebook. Stormblades are not part of a casters battlegroup.

No where in refuge does it say you get to make -multiple- moves. Refuge does not say you get to make a 6" moves, a stormblade moving from refuge moves up to 5" since stormblades are speed 5. Attacks outside of activation do not trigger refuge (when this model hits with an attack during it's activation).


For more complicated stuff....

Assault attacks are NOT resolved during a model or units combat action.

Valander
10-29-2011, 09:43 AM
How exactly does Kara Sloan's Refuge spell interact with the Assault order, as it applies to the free ranged attack?
In short, it doesn't, because that part of her feat only applies to models in her battlegroup, which will be jacks, and jacks never get orders. Additionally, there is no current Cygnar jack that has Assault.

Also, check the May 2011 errata, as the second sentence in her feat has been changed.