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View Full Version : Janissa Stonetide, Techtonic Shift and also pMadrak's feat with champs



Xeteskian
11-24-2011, 07:48 AM
Howdy,

Just a couple of quick rule checks if possible? When Janissa casts techtonic shift, (or any other of her magic abilities) what would be the target? Do I need to role against each enemy model in her 3" range? regarding rock wall, I'm assuming they auto cast, but regarding the shift - I'm unsure.

I suppose it's best to also double confirm that seeing as it's a magic ability I roll 2d6 + [magic] and not do a skill check (i.e roll 2d6 and make it <= skill)

Regarding pMadrak's feat, if I pop the feat and have a champ start wailing on a unit, do I get two goes at the overtake ability due him dual wielding? i.e On his 1st attack he kills bane thrall#1, moves 1" gets a free attack, kills bane thrall#2, moves 1" gets a free attack, kills bane thrall#3, moves 1" misses bane thrall #4. He now uses his 2nd attack on bane thrall#4 again, kills him so gets to move 1" and free attack bane thrall#5, kills him so moves 1" and gets a free attack on bane thrall#6 etc.

I've found a number of replies to this question and a they seem to conflict each other, so I'd just like the official ruling. I also got into a heated debate with a friend about this as he claimed that I didn't get the free attacks.

Cheers in advance

Xet

The Captain
11-24-2011, 09:02 AM
Howdy,

Just a couple of quick rule checks if possible? When Janissa casts techtonic shift, (or any other of her magic abilities) what would be the target? Do I need to role against each enemy model in her 3" range? regarding rock wall, I'm assuming they auto cast, but regarding the shift - I'm unsure.

I suppose it's best to also double confirm that seeing as it's a magic ability I roll 2d6 + [magic] and not do a skill check (i.e roll 2d6 and make it <= skill)

Magic ability *Actions, such as Rock Wall and Tectonic Shift, don't require a roll. Magic ability *Attacks, such as Rock Hammer, require an attack roll of Magic ability + 2D6 vs the target's DEF. Tectonic Shift and Rock Wall don't target anything. With Rock Hammer you declare the target just like with any attack, and if out of range, the attack will auto-miss.


Regarding pMadrak's feat, if I pop the feat and have a champ start wailing on a unit, do I get two goes at the overtake ability due him dual wielding? i.e On his 1st attack he kills bane thrall#1, moves 1" gets a free attack, kills bane thrall#2, moves 1" gets a free attack, kills bane thrall#3, moves 1" misses bane thrall #4. He now uses his 2nd attack on bane thrall#4 again, kills him so gets to move 1" and free attack bane thrall#5, kills him so moves 1" and gets a free attack on bane thrall#6 etc.

Correct. The feat says "When a friendly Faction model destroys one or more enemy models with a melee attack while the enemy model is in Madrak's control area, the friendly model can make an additional attack".

Note that you must fulfill all required conditions of the feat and no others. So in order to get additional attacks, the attacking model must be
- a friendly Faction model (i.e. not a Minion)
- targeting an enemy model that is in Madrak's Control area
- destroying said target with a melee attack. (Any melee attack can trigger the feat, including additional attacks such as those gained from this feat, as well as attacks with each of the model's melee weapons.)

Why does your friend think you wouldn't gain additional attacks? It usually helps convincing them if you understand where their misunderstanding comes from.

vintersbastard
11-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Regarding Tectonic Shift: It's a *action, so it doesn't require any check at all. It doesn't target anything, either.

Re. Magic Abilities in general: If it's a *attack (e.g. Rockhammer), then yes, you need to hit a model with a magic attack roll of 2d6+[Magic Ability].

Re. Madrak's feat Crusher on Champions: This thread (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?62639-Crusher-and-Additional-Attacks&p=858438&viewfull=1#post858438) has the ruling that the granted additional attacks are resolved after finishing all initial attacks; so your example doesn't work.

The Captain
11-24-2011, 09:34 AM
Re. Madrak's feat Crusher on Champions: This thread (http://%22https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?62639-Crusher-and-Additional-Attacks&p=859178) has the ruling that the granted additional attacks are resolved after finishing all initial attacks; so your example doesn't work.
Hmm. Makes sense that way, too. After all, as Valander says and Maudlin confirms, additional attacks are normally made after all initial attacks. (The link is broken, by the way. I had to use my 1337 html skillz to get where I wanted to get.) So I stand corrected on that part.

Xeteskian
11-24-2011, 09:55 AM
Thanks for clearing that up.

Regarding the feat, I guess I was partially correct.

My friend stated that the reason that no further attacks were possible was due to his Jack having to spend additional focus for more attacks but my champs not. When I tried to explain it was a Jack specific rule and that the feat wording was unrelated he was having none of it. It was his 2nd ever game and my first using a hordes army (my main is cryx, but dont think that will last for long at the rate i'm buying trolls) as I said the argument got a little heated so I just let him have it his way with clarification for our next game. I think he just panicked when he realised how much damage was about to happen to his bunched up infantry.

Xeteskian
11-25-2011, 04:06 AM
Throwing a spanner into the works here but I just found another thread with very similar wording to Madrak's feat. The concensus of that thread is that you get a free attack with both initial attacks (see: HERE (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?86911-Avatar-of-Slaughter-and-Initial-attacks)). So whos right? :D

The Captain
11-25-2011, 04:57 AM
Throwing a spanner into the works here but I just found another thread with very similar wording to Madrak's feat. The concensus of that thread is that you get a free attack with both initial attacks (see: HERE (https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?86911-Avatar-of-Slaughter-and-Initial-attacks)). So whos right? :D
Looks like Valander has changed him mind since the earlier thread. Good, I'd say, because I've always played Scrapjack as the later thread says and after the Crusher discussion I was afraid that I'd been doing it wrong.

I think we need to whack the penguin with the spanner and ask him whether the ruling on Avatar of slaughter applies to Crusher, too.

vintersbastard
11-25-2011, 05:34 AM
I'm afraid there's a difference in wording which upholds both rulings:


Avatar of Slaughter - Target this model or Scrapjack. The affected model gains +2 to melee attack rolls. When it destroys an enemy warrior model with a melee attack during its activation, after the attack is resolved the affected model can advance up to 1˝ and make an additional melee attack. The spell tells you exactly when the additional attack is resolved, so it supercedes the general rule.


Crusher - While in Ironhideʼs control area, friendly Faction models gain Overtake. Additionally, when a friendly Faction model destroys one or more enemy models with a melee attack while it is in Ironhideʼs control area, the friendly model can make an additional melee attack.The feat does not include any such phrase, so the general rule on additional attacks (being made after all initial attacks) upholds.

Valander
11-25-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm afraid there's a difference in wording which upholds both rulings:

The spell tells you exactly when the additional attack is resolved, so it supercedes the general rule.

The feat does not include any such phrase, so the general rule on additional attacks (being made after all initial attacks) upholds.
This is correct. In the case of effects that state when they resolve, they resolve as indicated.

(Side note: I wasn't an infernal then, but Maudin confirmed that particular issue.)

Starweaver
11-25-2011, 11:48 PM
Do the additional attacks you can get from various initial attacks under crusher stack or would you only get to make one if both a champions attacks destroy an enemy model?

vintersbastard
11-26-2011, 07:08 AM
Do the additional attacks you can get from various initial attacks under crusher stack or would you only get to make one if both a champions attacks destroy an enemy model?Since this is similar to other cases of attack-generating abilites (which are covered by p. 60 of Prime), I would assume that you only get one additional attack.

FerrusManus
11-26-2011, 08:29 AM
Since this is similar to other cases of attack-generating abilites (which are covered by p. 60 of Prime), I would assume that you only get one additional attack.
On pg60 it only say that one attack can never generate more than one additional attack, but in this case there's 2 separate attacks so you should get 2 additional attacks if both your initial attacks destroyed an enemy model. Unless I'm missing some rule.