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Paddywhack
11-24-2011, 09:59 PM
Simple question. Does Kaelyssa's feat, which prevents models in her control area from being charged, also prevent them from being slammed or trampled? Both slam and trample say that any effect, such as a penalty to SPD, prevents slams and tramples.

This is the only thing I could find searching.

https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?16566-Kaelyssa-Feat-Question&highlight=kaelyssa+feat

BrickandMurder
11-24-2011, 10:06 PM
I don't have kaelyssa in front of me so I'm going off memory on her feat. I believe that her feat states that friendly models can't be targeted by charges (+ stealth). This is a buff to your models. You haven't removed your enemy's ability to perform a charge just the ability to target your models with the charge. This leaves slam and trample intact and available to your opponent.

hausdorff space
11-24-2011, 10:19 PM
I'm pretty sure if you cannot Charge a model, then you cannot Slam it either.
Trample doesn't have a 'target' per-say, so is unaffected by the feat.

nachtnebel
11-24-2011, 10:25 PM
I'm pretty sure if you cannot Charge a model, then you cannot Slam it either.
Correct, see Prime p.52: "Any effect that prevents a model from charging [...] also prevents it form making a slam power attack".

BrickandMurder
11-24-2011, 10:32 PM
I'm pretty sure if you cannot Charge a model, then you cannot Slam it either.
Trample doesn't have a 'target' per-say, so is unaffected by the feat.

Nothing on pp. 46-47 of Prime indicates this as far as I can tell, but I will keep looking to be sure.

Paddywhack
11-24-2011, 11:35 PM
Correct, see Prime p.52: "Any effect that prevents a model from charging [...] also prevents it form making a slam power attack".
Trample has the same wording on p. 55. So the question is is Kaelyssa's feat an 'effect'? I don't have the card, but play against her. If so, it seems that you can't charge, trample, or slam when her feat is up.

nachtnebel
11-24-2011, 11:47 PM
Yes, feats are effects. Actually everything that affects the way the game is played is an effect (abilities, feats, spells, ...).

With trample, things are a little bit different: Kaelyssa's feat says, that friendly faction models in her CTRL cannot be charged, this is slightly different from preventing models to charge at all. Nothing prevents you from charging/slamming your own models under Kaelyssa's feat, but as soon as you target a ret model the feat kicks in and stops you from doing so. As opposed to charge and slam power attacks trample doesn't require a target, you just pick a direction and trample, so Kaelyssa's feat doesn't kick in.

Paddywhack
11-25-2011, 11:37 AM
With trample, things are a little bit different: Kaelyssa's feat says, that friendly faction models in her CTRL cannot be charged, this is slightly different from preventing models to charge at all. Nothing prevents you from charging/slamming your own models under Kaelyssa's feat, but as soon as you target a ret model the feat kicks in and stops you from doing so. As opposed to charge and slam power attacks trample doesn't require a target, you just pick a direction and trample, so Kaelyssa's feat doesn't kick in.

So even though Trample has the same wording as Slam, as you are not specifically targeting anyone, you can still Trample into her Feat area. OK, fair enough.

Murkhadh
11-25-2011, 11:39 AM
It says it in one of those tool tip type things in one of the faction books, if you cannot charge a model you can not slam it, but you CAN trample. Trample has nothing to do with any type of target model, you declare and pick a direction.

Ramses0559
11-25-2011, 12:02 PM
What is the exact wording on the feat? Because if post #2 saying "targeted by a charge" then I wouldn't think it would prevent slamming because the feat doesn't prevent charges it prevents targeting. If the feat just says can't be charged then no slamming would be understood.

Mr_Zsasz
11-25-2011, 12:14 PM
I got the Forces book in front of me: "...cannot be charged." (p. 58).

Murkhadh
11-25-2011, 12:31 PM
I got the Forces book in front of me: "...cannot be charged." (p. 58).

In the forces book, on the same page your looking at (58). Under Kaelyssa's spell list, where it says tactical tips. It says "The Vanishing - Models that cannot be charged cannot be slammed."

This is probably in prime somewhere as well.

BrickandMurder
11-25-2011, 09:51 PM
Correct, see Prime p.52: "Any effect that prevents a model from charging [...] also prevents it form making a slam power attack".

Agreed. I was not sure of the wording on the feat, so I couldn't make an appropriate decision.