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fee_nix
11-25-2011, 02:59 AM
Hi was recently playing a game against my friends Khador force and a situation came up I wasnt exactly happy with, but I let him away with his opinion on the rules [mostly to save further argument]. Heres the situation Id like an opinion on:

a unit and a warbeast have recently been in combat the warbeast has killed one model from the unit and is now out of reach of the rest of the unit. Its now Khadors turn...

Model A [a man o war of some sort] has a :Reach: weapon and is standing in melee range of the warbeast.

However the Khador player wants to first make a shot with a nearby widowmaker.

My opponents point was that because the warbeast couldnt hit model A he technically want in combat as so could shoot without penalty.

My two objections were that one they would still be fighting i.e. the combat isnt a standing still fencing match. and that model A bases partially obscured the warbeasts



whats your opinion Id love to know, Im possibly in the wrong but my opponent forced the rule through and actually took the shot before I could find a rulebook :s

Picklechu
11-25-2011, 03:05 AM
The warbeast was not engaging the Man O War. The warbeast was engaged by the man o war. Therefore the models were in melee and the shooting into melee penalty applies.

EDIT for page ref (stolen from a post lower in this forum):

From page 31 of the mini-rulebook (MRB):



Definition of "engaged": "When a model is within an enemy model's melee range and in that model's line of sight, it is engaged in combat and primarily concerned with fighting its nearest threat."
Definition of "engaging": "When a model has an enemy model in its melee range and line of sight, it is engaging that model."
Definition of "in melee": "When a model is either engaged or engaging, it is in melee."

Avatar8481
11-25-2011, 03:06 AM
If either model is in the others melee range than BOTH models are in melee and they gain the target in melee penalty when being shot at. Doesn't matter if his reach model is the one engaging or not.

Also, even if the base was partly obscured by other model's bases that has no impact on shooting and targeting so long as there is at least one unobstructed line between the shooter an the target (that's a change from Mk1)

Hjelmen0
11-25-2011, 03:08 AM
A model will suffer the penalty for shooting into combat at a target that is in melee. A model is in melee if it is either engaged (which means that it is in the melee range of an enemy model) or if it is engaging (which means that it has an enemy model in it's melee range) or both.

The warbeast in question was in the melee range of the Man-O-War, so it was engaged, and therefore in melee, meaning that all ranged attacks against the warbeast would incur the penalty for shooting into combat.

fee_nix
11-25-2011, 03:20 AM
thanks guys thats a big help! Now to break it to my opponent without him throwing a huffy fit

is there a topic for that? ;)

Hjelmen0
11-25-2011, 03:26 AM
No, but there is a rulebook you can refer him to so that he can throw a hissy at the book instead of you ;) Just make sure it's his rulebook.

fee_nix
11-25-2011, 03:29 AM
by refer too do you mean bludgeon with? ;)

bitmatic
11-25-2011, 03:55 AM
..or just stop playing against people that throw huffy fits when rules go against them... :p