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View Full Version : Friendly offensive and defensive upkeeps



santospr
12-05-2011, 05:45 PM
What happens when you have a friendly upkeep on a model (not the one casting it) and then try to target an enemy model to which it is engaged with an offensive upkeep. And then you miss and hit your own model. Do both upkeeps stay on your model, or does the previous friendly buff expire due to only one slot for friendly upkeep on a model?

Came across this with Rashesth and MK who was engaging Grayle. Molik had carnivore on him. Rashesth tried to debuff Grayle and missed, but hit Molik with the subsequent spell.


What is the right course of action?

solkan
12-05-2011, 05:54 PM
You've heard about friendly fire, right?

A friendly offensive upkeep spell is still an friendly upkeep spell, so it would cause the other friendly upkeep spell to expire "when the affected model is hit by the spell." (Upkeep spells, page 78, Prime Mk II).

santospr
12-05-2011, 05:59 PM
That's what my logic led me to, but I was unsure because it seemed pretty steep a price to pay to not only miss my guy but also remove a buff from your own guy, and then further debuff him and make him easier to kill.

hamsandwich50
12-05-2011, 07:07 PM
yeah it sounds like it would remove the buff, i was going to say that he could use intuition to force a reroll but that's for enemies only.

solkan
12-05-2011, 07:56 PM
That's what my logic led me to, but I was unsure because it seemed pretty steep a price to pay to not only miss my guy but also remove a buff from your own guy, and then further debuff him and make him easier to kill.

If you're going to shoot into melee, you need to either take steps to ensure that you don't miss, or be prepared to deal with the negative consequences. I know I've killed plenty of my own models pushing my luck like that.

hamsandwich50
12-05-2011, 09:16 PM
I was rereading the target in melee section of the rule book and came across this

"When determining the attack's new target, the only models considered to be in the same combat are those in melee with the attack's original target and any models in melee with them. Any model meeting these criteria can become the new target. However, a model cannot become the new target if a special rule of effect prohibits it from being targeted by the attack...." emphasis mine

so since this was an offensive upkeep that specifies enemy model would that make karn an ineligible target.

solkan
12-05-2011, 09:22 PM
Good point, if it was a spell that specified "Target enemy unit ..." or something similar. There are plenty of debuff spells that just say "Target unit ...", though.

hamsandwich50
12-05-2011, 09:40 PM
yes but since it was rasheth his only offensive upkeep does specify enemy model.