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TClaw
12-15-2011, 08:09 AM
Sorry, for my english, and may be stupid questions, but I couldn't find in primebook rules that doesn't allow to use special abilities and animus during frenzy activation. So, can the frenzied warbeast use special abilities, that may be used during its normal activation?

For example, Harrier frenzies, kills someone, then can he use sprint or not?

Another example, can the War Hog use aggression dial when he frenzies?

Another similar question, can the warbeast use its animus during his frenzy activation?
So, can such situation be legal: WarHog use Massacre (and Aggression dial) on himself during his frenzy activation, then charge his target, kill it, and then trigger massacre and move 1"( but with no additional attack, because during frenzy activation warbeast cant make additional attacks).

henderslice
12-15-2011, 08:45 AM
I would say no on the animus since you can remove any number of fury after the frenzy occurs. That would be like getting a "free" animus.

Vigilante
12-15-2011, 08:48 AM
Sorry, for my english, and may be stupid questions, but I couldn't find in primebook rules that doesn't allow to use special abilities and animus during frenzy activation. So, can the frenzied warbeast use special abilities, that may be used during its normal activation?

For example, Harrier frenzies, kills someone, then can he use sprint or not?

Another example, can the War Hog use aggression dial when he frenzies?

Another similar question, can the warbeast use its animus during his frenzy activation?
So, can such situation be legal: WarHog use Massacre (and Aggression dial) on himself during his frenzy activation, then charge his target, kill it, and then trigger massacre and move 1"( but with no additional attack, because during frenzy activation warbeast cant make additional attacks).

This came up a few weeks ago. A thread was posted, people checked the rules and found nothing against it. No Infernal found that they needed to post in it, so I'd say that the consensus is correct (quoted post). As long as you aren't performing another attack, you can use abilities, rile, and use an animus.


That column of the page lists the sequence of events that happens during the warbeast's frenzy activation, but it's still an activation and it's still the warbeast's activation.

The frenzied warbeast doesn't get to make additional attacks because there is one line of text explicitly saying so. (And there's a Inferfnal clarification for an ability that would otherwise have gotten around the extra attack prohibition.)

There are no corresponding statements in the rules to say that non-attack abilities cannot be used during the frenzy activation.

SageofLodoss
12-15-2011, 08:49 AM
Because a beast frenzies before all of your activations, I believe that a Frenzy is not considered the same as that beast's normal "activation," and so it does not get its special abilities. In the case of animus, absolutely not.

In the case of Massacre and Sprint, I believe that Frenzy is different from normal activation and so they do not trigger.

Abilities inherent to the beast that you don't have to use or trigger during "activation" or announce/pay for are retained. But for other things, I believe it has to state whether there is any frenzy interaction. Controlled Warping, for instance, is used during Frenzy but limited to Warping for Strength.

EDIT: Ninja'd with this

This came up a few weeks ago. A thread was posted, people checked the rules and found nothing against it. No Infernal found that they needed to post in it, so I'd say that the consensus is correct (quoted post). As long as you aren't performing another attack, you can use abilities, rile, and use an animus.


Really? I could see maybe being wrong about the Sprint and stuff (which would be interesting; would certainly change the way I'd handle Frenzy'd beasts), but the animus thing just seems cheap. As henderslice said, you can remove all Fury from the Frenzy beast at the end of the Frenzy, so your animus is free. That doesn't sound right.

hamsandwich50
12-15-2011, 08:58 AM
But the frenzy is that beasts activation it just has to happen before all others, its not out of the normal sequence just the first activation. Yeah you get to use an animus for free basically but that's if the beast can still put fury on it which is going to be limited with most frenzies and you lose that beast's activation except for the frenzy so your still paying a price to frenzy.

Vigilante
12-15-2011, 09:03 AM
Because a beast frenzies before all of your activations, I believe that a Frenzy is not considered the same as that beast's normal "activation," and so it does not get its special abilities. In the case of animus, absolutely not.

In the case of Massacre and Sprint, I believe that Frenzy is different from normal activation and so they do not trigger.

Abilities inherent to the beast that you don't have to use or trigger during "activation" or announce/pay for are retained. But for other things, I believe it has to state whether there is any frenzy interaction. Controlled Warping, for instance, is used during Frenzy but limited to Warping for Strength.

EDIT: Ninja'd with this


Really? I could see maybe being wrong about the Sprint and stuff (which would be interesting; would certainly change the way I'd handle Frenzy'd beasts), but the animus thing just seems cheap. As henderslice said, you can remove all Fury from the Frenzy beast at the end of the Frenzy, so your animus is free. That doesn't sound right.
A warbeast can only be forced during its activation. During a frenzy, the warbeast activates and performs all of its actions during an activation. The frenzy rules state specifically what happens with movement and attack, anything else is free game.

Edit: It does not say that the activation ends as soon as the attack is finished.
Edit 2: Under forcing warbeasts, the only time that a warbeast can't be forced is when it is wild. Not when it is frenzying.

Geekly
12-15-2011, 10:08 AM
There have been a few threads on related topics lately regarding what you can do during a frenzy activation and here's what I've gathered from them:



The frenzy activation, while occurring during the control phase, is still an activation. That's the only activation the warbeast gets for that turn.
It spends its combat action to make ONE initial attack. You can't do anything else that requires a combat action.
It never makes special attacks. Power attacks are special attacks. No Combo Strike, etc.
It uses it's movement to advance toward a target if it's not already in melee range. It charges if it can, without being forced. That's the only movement you get for that activation.
It can perform any action during the frenzy activation that you could perform during a normal activation except for the things are are explicitly or implicitly denied. The warbeast can still be forced, use special abilities that aren't attacks (Regeneration, Stone Form, etc.), can rile, and can use the animus.



This is the way I understand that frenzy works as long as specific abilities don't override them explicitly.

NmoLvr
12-15-2011, 10:27 AM
Never mind.

The Captain
12-15-2011, 10:31 AM
Emphasis mine, chris. This is from the pdf, but unless it changed in the final rules you cannot force a frenzied warbeast. Rile requires a force, animi require a force, regeneration requires a force, stone form requires a force.

A special ability that does not require forcing at all could probably be used.
It was changed considerably. Frenzy is no longer an effect that lasts for one round. The beast just frenzies, and after the frenzy activation it stops being frenzied.

NmoLvr
12-15-2011, 10:39 AM
In that case, I withdraw my previous comment. :)

poeticruse
04-04-2012, 12:03 PM
Adding this recent ruling to an old thread and locking it, to reduce confusion.

Answer is:
Frenzying Warbeasts are only intended to be able do those things listed in the Threshold and Frenzy rules. This precludes optional abilities, use of animi, and forcing for any purpose. There may be an errata to add this preclusion to the Frenzy rules.