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View Full Version : Machine Wraiths and the 4th Tiebreaker



ThatRickGuy
12-19-2011, 10:37 AM
So if your opponent uses a Machine Wraith to take control of one of your Warjacks, and you wind up killing the Warjack while the Wraith is in it, who gets the Warjack's points for the tie breaker?

-Rick

KnightoNi1894
12-19-2011, 10:51 AM
Your opponent would. Just like if you shoot your own model they would get the points if you kill it.

Knight

ThatRickGuy
12-19-2011, 11:11 AM
Even though at the time of it's death it isn't one of your own models?

-Rick

drachenfels
12-19-2011, 02:05 PM
Even though at the time of it's death it isn't one of your own models?

-Rick

but it is your model from your list, he is just in temporary control of it.

ThatRickGuy
12-19-2011, 02:27 PM
but it is your model from your list, he is just in temporary control of it.

What list it is on is a non-issue. SR2012 specifically states that "Points are scored each time a model/unit is destoyed" and gives the example of Thagrosh1 and Goreshade2, both of whom create new models on the field. None of those models are on any list.

It also states to include points for models that were "brought into the army via other means" and cites Dark Industries.

-Rick

drachenfels
12-19-2011, 03:28 PM
taking control of a model is not "bringing it into your army" it is taking TEMPORARY control of it. Temporary being the key word here.

edit - otherwise would an opponent get points again if i popped eGaspy's feat and brought back a bunch of stuff for them to leave automatically at the end of the turn??

Temporary changes should not count towards points (note thagosh and gaspy both create permanent items)

Tom Servo
12-19-2011, 03:59 PM
Machine wraith exits a warjack once it, the warjack, is damaged

ThatRickGuy
12-19-2011, 04:30 PM
Machine wraith exits a warjack once it, the warjack, is damaged

No true, the Machine Wraith has a CHANCE to exit the warjack once the warjack is damaged. The Machine Meld rule specifically state that if the warjack is destroyed before the Wraith can exit, it is also destroyed.


taking control of a model is not "bringing it into your army" it is taking TEMPORARY control of it. Temporary being the key word here.

TEMPORARY isn't a rule though, unless uttered by an Infernal ;)

Also, funny note, at a recent tourney there was a Cryx vs Cryx battle that had one jack switch side like 3 or 4 times as the two players managed to 'Dark Industries' it back and forth over and over again.


otherwise would an opponent get points again if i popped eGaspy's feat and brought back a bunch of stuff for them to leave automatically at the end of the turn??

No, because those models aren't destroyed, they "leave play". But it does raise an interesting question. If eGaspy feats, against, lets say eVlad, and a model charges eVlad, only to get counter charged by the War dog and killed, does the Khador player get to count that model as a destroyed solo? Although, that's probably a new thread :)

edit: scratch that last bit, I had forgotten that the restored models could not be attacked or damaged.

-Rick

solkan
12-19-2011, 05:48 PM
Are you playing using SR2011 or SR2012 rules?

I can point you to the post Hacksaw made earlier this year where he promised that the matter would be clarified: https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?76892-Points-for-destroyed-models-in-tournaments&p=1067598&viewfull=1#post1067598

I would have sworn that a Hacksaw had put out a clarification that you get points for models owned (as defined in the SR 2011 rules) by the other player that get destroyed. But I can't find it at the moment, and since this is a tournament scenario rules question, your local tournament organizer would have the ultimate say on how the tie breaker worked anyway.

KnightoNi1894
12-20-2011, 04:56 AM
Steamroller 2012 states that you tally the models each player has had destroyed or removed from play. Then the opponent of the player with the most points destroyed or removed from play wins. Who did the destroying is irrelevant and would be insane to track given the number of abilities the destroy one model in lieu of another model thereby making it so you destroyed your model instead of the opponent.

Knight

zyxx
12-20-2011, 05:30 AM
So if your opponent uses a Machine Wraith to take control of one of your Warjacks, and you wind up killing the Warjack while the Wraith is in it, who gets the Warjack's points for the tie breaker?

-Rick

when it is all said and done, the Warjack is still your model. Its just that, when a Machine Wraith is in it, you just lose the ability to control that 'jack, but it is still your model. Even if you kill said 'jack, you are killing your model, so points would go to your opponent.

make sense?

henpara
12-20-2011, 06:30 AM
I agree with zyxx here: Controling is not even to owning a model.

correlation2
12-20-2011, 07:16 AM
I don't think its in my mini rulebook here, but I seem to remember the exact wording for control of a model/unit being in the bigger rulebook.

That section should specify exactly how it works. I think ( off memory ) that for the duration of the effect the model in question is actually considered an enemy model.

Hacksaw76
12-20-2011, 07:29 AM
Who controls a model at the time of its destruction is irrelevant. When counting AP destroyed ownership of the model is the discriminator for who gets the points. I will add this clarification to the destruction scoring section of SR2012 ;)

zyxx
12-20-2011, 07:32 AM
I don't think its in my mini rulebook here, but I seem to remember the exact wording for control of a model/unit being in the bigger rulebook.

That section should specify exactly how it works. I think ( off memory ) that for the duration of the effect the model in question is actually considered an enemy model.

it is considered to be an enemy model... but the "temporary" controller still does not own the model...

ThatRickGuy
12-20-2011, 11:02 AM
Who controls a model at the time of its destruction is irrelevant. When counting AP destroyed ownership of the model is the discriminator for who gets the points. I will add this clarification to the destruction scoring section of SR2012 ;)

Awesome! Thanks Hacksaw. I was going over the rules again and again and I see how the 3rd tiebreaker specifically states "owned" models, but the 4th tie breaker did not.

-Rick