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jking_3rd
12-21-2011, 12:18 AM
Ok, so this came up recently, and I guess I missed the memo, but here's the question:

Is a model with Reach, (A), that engages a non-reach model beyond 0.5", say at 1.5", (B) considered to be, "Engaged" as a result of its reach?

The issue came up in a game recently, and I was under the impression that a model is only considered "engaged" when an enemy has melee reach with it. I seem to remember reading something like that, and would appreciate and thread links, page numbers, word lawyering, etc.

Hjelmen0
12-21-2011, 01:02 AM
A model is engaged if it is in the melee range of an enemy model. A model is engaging if it has an enemy model in its melee range. A model can be both engaged and engaging at the same time, and if a model is either, it is considered to be in melee.

So, in your example model A is engaging, and model B is engaged. Model A has model B in its melee range, but model A is not in the melee range of an enemy model, so it is only engaging, and not also engaged. Conversely, model B is in the melee range of an enemy model, but does not have an enemy model in its melee range, so it is only engaged, and not also engaging.

Both models A and B are in melee, since they are either engaging or engaged.

x3tsniper
12-21-2011, 02:50 AM
A good example of this is Old Witch's arc node. Scrap Jack has reach. If he is engaging something without reach, he can still be channeled through, assuming the model without reach isn't engaging him.

Also Drakhun's counter charge. He can be engaging something, but if he isn't being engaged himself, he can counter charge.

baronvonchaos
12-21-2011, 10:33 AM
I was going to ask this question. In regards to the Devil Dogs. The chain net knocks down (KD) a beast. Per Prime rules, A knocked down model cannot engage anything. So the devil dogs proceed to hack with their picks until none are left in melee. The rest of the Devil Dogs can fire on this KD Beast because it is not engaging anything. They won't suffer the firing into combat penalty yes? They won't risk hitting their comrades if they miss, correct?

It's a compilation of rules that I haven't ironed out yet, but I've seen some inconsistencies when playing at my LGS.

Feeple
12-21-2011, 11:07 AM
I was going to ask this question. In regards to the Devil Dogs. The chain net knocks down (KD) a beast. Per Prime rules, A knocked down model cannot engage anything. So the devil dogs proceed to hack with their picks until none are left in melee. The rest of the Devil Dogs can fire on this KD Beast because it is not engaging anything. They won't suffer the firing into combat penalty yes? They won't risk hitting their comrades if they miss, correct?

It's a compilation of rules that I haven't ironed out yet, but I've seen some inconsistencies when playing at my LGS.

You are correct.

Hasten
12-21-2011, 11:36 AM
Wait, the KD beast is in melee because it's engaged by the model that used the net, right?

So if the beast is in melee, then it should receive the in-melee bonus, bringing it up to DEF 9. Or am I missing something?

-H

*Edit -- Disregard, my mistake =)

Nion
12-21-2011, 11:45 AM
If I recall correctly (at work, no book), knocked down models can't engage or be engaged.

Hasten
12-21-2011, 11:51 AM
If I recall correctly (at work, no book), knocked down models can't engage or be engaged.

Yes, you're right. From the rules .pdf:

"A knocked down model does not engage other models nor can other models engage a knocked down model. A model is never in melee with a knocked down model."

So you can shoot that KD beast with no in-melee penalty =).

-H

solkan
12-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Which PDF is that?

The printed version on page 63 of either rulebook is slightly different but has the same effect: "A knocked down model does not engage other models and cannot be engaged by them. As a consequence, a model is never in melee with a knocked down model."

Hasten
12-21-2011, 12:44 PM
Which PDF is that?

The old WM MKII field test .pdf that I remembered I still had a copy of on this computer. There are some subtle differences, but it's largely pretty accurate.

-H

Valander
12-21-2011, 01:29 PM
Please don't use the old field test PDFs for relying on rule citations, they are not current.

I believe the original question was answered in post 2.