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nicholas_342
12-23-2011, 12:58 PM
Here's the situation. The enemy warcaster is 14" away from an Avalancher and there is a line of infantry 7" away from the avalancher. The warcaster can see the avalancher because the infantry don't block line of sight to the warjack, but how is it that those same infantry block line of sight for the avalancher to the warcaster when the warcaster is off by himself? I can see how a small based model wouldn't be able to see through the infantry, but the avalancher's point of view is a good 4 feet higher than that of a small based model. For the avalancher it would be, "Well'', there's some infantry a little bit ahead of me, but look, a little bit further away there's the warcaster standing out in an open field with no cover or anything to hide behind."
If an infantry model can look up[B] at a warjack how is it that a warjack doesn't look [B]down on an infantry model?

Mastershake
12-23-2011, 01:05 PM
Here's the situation. The enemy warcaster is 14" away from an Avalancher and there is a line of infantry 7" away from the avalancher. The warcaster can see the avalancher because the infantry don't block line of sight to the warjack, but how is it that those same infantry block line of sight for the avalancher to the warcaster when the warcaster is off by himself? I can see how a small based model wouldn't be able to see through the infantry, but the avalancher's point of view is a good 4 feet higher than that of a small based model. For the avalancher it would be, "Well'', there's some infantry a little bit ahead of me, but look, a little bit further away there's the warcaster standing out in an open field with no cover or anything to hide behind."
If an infantry model can look up[B] at a warjack how is it that a warjack doesn't look [B]down on an infantry model?

Not sure what the question is here, you have the rules right, unless a model is on a hill, models the same size or larger than your target will block LoS to it.

John Q.
12-23-2011, 01:14 PM
If you look at a lot of the Jack models, their eyeline is actually not much different from any normal small based man-sized model, yet their smoke stacks/armour etc. add the heigth.

It's not a rules based answer, but then, it's not really a rules based question.

nicholas_342
12-23-2011, 01:15 PM
The warcaster can see the avalancher because the infantry don't block line of sight to the warjack, but how is it that those same infantry block line of sight for the avalancher to the warcaster when the warcaster is off by himself? I can see how a small based model wouldn't be able to see through the infantry, but the avalancher's point of view is a good 4 feet higher than that of a small based model.

Right there is the question. How can a small based intervening model block los for a large based model when the target is no where near another model? Especially when you consider the fact that a small based model on a 1" hill takes up the same volume so to speak as that large based model that isn't on a hill, yet the small based model can now somehow see what the large based model can't.

I have to get back to work, so it'll be a few hours before I can come back to this.

Hashmal
12-23-2011, 01:18 PM
That's how the rules work. This isn't really the place to debate the physical sense of an abstraction.

Mastershake
12-23-2011, 01:37 PM
Right there is the question. How can a small based intervening model block los for a large based model when the target is no where near another model? Especially when you consider the fact that a small based model on a 1" hill takes up the same volume so to speak as that large based model that isn't on a hill, yet the small based model can now somehow see what the large based model can't.

I have to get back to work, so it'll be a few hours before I can come back to this.

You should've mentioned that part, on a hill changes LoS a bit both too and from, unless the intervening models are also on a hill, they don't block LoS to a model on a hill.

alexandyr
12-23-2011, 02:58 PM
While this particular rule does not always make the most sense logically, it adds to the strategic depth of the game immensely. Your opponent is able to set up a defensive line to protect his caster from easy ranged assassination - or at least make you work for it by clearing out the defending units first.

There are models that are designed to specifically counter this strategy due to having the Arcing Fire rule.

Game design reasons aside, in many cases it does make some sense given how low-slung the guns warjacks often are - if they are direct-fire weapons they would have a very hard time firing over the heads of a line of infantry at a small target. Remember that when shooting it's the line of site of the muzzle that matters, not the top of your hat.

Valander
12-23-2011, 03:52 PM
That's how the rules work. This isn't really the place to debate the physical sense of an abstraction.
Bingo.

While the rules try to be as logical and "realistic" as possible, there will always have to be some aspects that are abstracted in order to be reasonably playable in a game situation.