View Full Version : Tactician [Trollkin Champions] - let's be sure...

02-02-2010, 08:58 AM
I've been playing the Trollkin Champion Hero's Tactician rule in a certain way, the way I've seen it described by others on this Forum as well, and I wanted to make sure I was doing it right. Can the Hero can use his Tactician rule to move through friendly Champion models himself? The rule reads:

Tactician [Trollkin Champions] - While in this model's command range, friendly Trollkin Champions models ignore other friendly Trollkin Champions models when determining LOS. Friendly Trollkin Champions models can advance through other friendly Trollkin Champions models in this model's command range without effect if they have enough movement to move completely past them.

It's the S in "friendly Trollkin Champions" that's got me worried. So, can the Hero move through friendly Champs?

Thanks in advance,

02-02-2010, 09:17 AM
The Trollkin Champion Hero is a Champion solo, so he would benefit from Tactician.

02-02-2010, 09:26 AM
As a model is always considered to be in its own command range, it seems ok to me. I can see what you're aiming at, though. I'd even go so far as to say that the wording on his card is a bit sloppy, really. Should read 'friendly Trollkin Champion models'. Compare him to the Tharn Ravager Whitemane and the inconsistency becomes aparent.

02-02-2010, 10:02 AM
This is going to need an Infernal response because as written, it states Trollkin Champions and in the description it says Trollkin Champions models. This seems to say that it will only affect the unit and not the solo because it is Trollkin Champion and not a Trollkin Champions.

02-02-2010, 10:29 AM
I thought that was basic English though.

1 Champion = Champion
2+ Champions = Champions

There is not such thing as a Champions model. There can be a Trollkin Champions unit but not Trollkin Champions model. Basic singular and plural rules apply.

02-02-2010, 11:04 AM
Cryptomancer, that "s" does look like trouble. I've looked over similar powers for my faction (Cryx) and the rule text always uses the singular form: Bloodgorger models rather than Bloodgorgers models, Soulhunter models rather than Soulhunters models.

A difference in rule text implies a difference in rule play. There's a chance it was a typo, but as it's written, Tactician seems to apply only to models in the "Trollkin Champions" unit and not to any "Trollkin Champion" solos.

02-02-2010, 12:46 PM
See, this is why I'm worried.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I'm hoping "superfluous S" is the answer here, too.


P.S. @ Kypt: it probably is that simple. But ask youself also if the phrase "Trollkin Champions models" is wonky, and should likely be "Trollkin Champion models". I'd prefer to head off trouble and disputes now, rather than in the middle of a game. Also, I'd [EDIT] be interested in a direct answer to the question: do you think the Hero can charge through Champs?

[EDIT]Hmm... that sounded a bit harsh first time through... let's try a re-write.

02-02-2010, 01:11 PM
I personally believe that the Hero can charge through the champs. You are correct, however, that from a technical writing stand point it could probably be better written and hope that is the case come final rules.

02-02-2010, 03:42 PM
I thought that was basic English though.

1 Champion = Champion
2+ Champions = Champions

There is not such thing as a Champions model. There can be a Trollkin Champions unit but not Trollkin Champions model. Basic singular and plural rules apply.

Any idiot that can speak english should know what a plural and a singular case of a word looks like and is referring to.

If you field 5 Trollkin Champions and 4 of them are killed off you only have 1 Trollkin Champion model left. You do not have 1 Trollkin Champions model left.

As is the case in every other reference to an entire unit. There is more than one that is, a) why they are a unit and not a solo b) made plural and not singular

blue loki
02-02-2010, 07:08 PM
No need to be harsh there Hatred. The problem is that the specific keyword "Trollkin Champions" matches exactly the unit name "Trollkin Champions". Individual members of the unit are not called Champion or Champions at all, they are called Leader and Grunts respectively. Due to the use of key words, we must use what is actually written, not what we think they might mean. When you refer to a single member of the unit, the correct terminology is actually "Trollkin Champions Grunt" or "Trollkin Champions Leader".

It is particularly important right now to point out such inconsistencies or odd interactions because the rules are still in a state of flux and can still be fixed before going to print.

I'm pretty sure the intent is that the Hero benefit, but we'll just have to wait for Infernal or Developer input at this point for official clarification.

02-10-2010, 09:01 AM
I don't want to let this question hang, because I know it'll come back to haunt me. Is it just a typo, or should I be worried? I just want to know what the intent of the rule was: can the Hero charge through a line of Champs (and is this supported by the rules as written), or can he not?


02-10-2010, 02:22 PM
I think the INTENT is totally clear here -- I can't imagine writing a rule in such a way that an application of it depended on a particular pluralization. (i.e. I think it's clear that the Hero is intended to be included.) Your only trouble might be if you run into a particularly bloody-minded TO or something.

Dominar Eeyore
03-16-2010, 08:52 AM

search is your friend.

Although that change has still not been made in the newest version