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piikalo
03-11-2012, 10:58 AM
my friend is getting into blindwater congregation so we wanted to clarify a few things....

1) when barnabas generates a swamp from his spell can he place that swamp on top of models or other pieces of terrain?

2) can he place swamps on top of scenario objectives like flags?

on a more general side but still speaking of terrain...

1) can terrain overlap at all?

2) are there specific rules to where and how you can place terrain on a battlefield?

quindraco
03-11-2012, 11:24 AM
Please only ask one question per thread.

Yes, Barnabas can summon swamps directly underneath other terrain features or flags or the like. Terrain can legally "overlap" - e.g. you can have a forest on a hill if you like.

You may not place a swamp underneath a model, as the Swamp Pit spell explicitly says you can't. 'Objectives' and 'flags' in SR2012 are always models so far as I know.

Vicomte Athos
03-11-2012, 11:26 AM
my friend is getting into blindwater congregation so we wanted to clarify a few things....

1) when barnabas generates a swamp from his spell can he place that swamp on top of models or other pieces of terrain?

Swamp Pit states that if cannot be placed touching another models base.


2) can he place swamps on top of scenario objectives like flags?

Flags and other scenario objectives are models, thus no.


on a more general side but still speaking of terrain...

1) can terrain overlap at all?

Swamp pits CAN overlap other pieces of terrain. In regards to before game terrain placement; no piece of terrain can be placed within 3" of another piece of terrain or scenario objective.


2) are there specific rules to where and how you can place terrain on a battlefield?

The only rules in the game governing the placement of terrain cover the placing of terrain before the game starts. Once the game is in progress defer to the rules of the ability that generates the terrain.

Vicomte Athos
03-11-2012, 11:26 AM
Please only ask one question per thread.

Yes, Barnabas can summon swamps directly underneath models or other terrain features or flags or the like. Terrain can legally "overlap" - e.g. you can have a forest on a hill if you like.

The highlighted portion is wrong. Please reread Swamp Pit.

quindraco
03-11-2012, 11:30 AM
The highlighted portion is wrong. Please reread Swamp Pit.

Already fixed it.

piikalo
03-11-2012, 11:42 AM
when terrain overlaps, say a forest and a swamp, which terrain features and rule sets take precedent?

quindraco
03-11-2012, 11:53 AM
when terrain overlaps, say a forest and a swamp, which terrain features and rule sets take precedent?

They stack; for example, a forested swamp grants concealment and blocks LOS like a forest, but puts out warjack pilot lights like shallow water. Pathfinder will let you walk through it without rough terrain penalties, but amphibious will not, as that only turns off the swamp.

Vicomte Athos
03-11-2012, 01:16 PM
. . ., but amphibious will not, as that only turns off the swamp.

Site your source.

Based upon the wording of Amphibious it allows you to walk through any patch of shallow water without penalty.

Lawso42
03-11-2012, 01:50 PM
Site your source.

Based upon the wording of Amphibious it allows you to walk through any patch of shallow water without penalty.

But it doesn't allow you to ignore the forest(which the swamp pit was placed on in the example).

Lawso

vintersbastard
03-11-2012, 01:53 PM
Site your source.

Based upon the wording of Amphibious it allows you to walk through any patch of shallow water without penalty.
You move through the shallow water without penalty, but not the forest. As quindraco noted, these things stack.

Vicomte Athos
03-11-2012, 02:18 PM
You move through the shallow water without penalty, but not the forest. As quindraco noted, these things stack.

A forest is just an area that grants rough terrain and concealment. Shallow water is also rough terrain. Amphibious allows you to move through any area of shallow water without penalty, this should include the rough terrain of the forest as that is a penalty to movement.

If you guys are saying otherwise then you need to site the rulebook or infernal ruling as the wording on Amphibious counter acts what you are saying.

solkan
03-11-2012, 02:25 PM
An Infernal saying that if you ignore the penalty for water but not the penalty for forest, the forest penalty still applies:
https://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?81743-Swamp-AoEs-and-forests-rough-terrain&p=1104150&viewfull=1#post1104150

poeticruse
03-11-2012, 05:19 PM
<--- an infernal saying so again.

The_Veneficus
03-12-2012, 07:07 PM
A forest is just an area that grants rough terrain and concealment. Shallow water is also rough terrain. Amphibious allows you to move through any area of shallow water without penalty, this should include the rough terrain of the forest as that is a penalty to movement.

If you guys are saying otherwise then you need to site the rulebook or infernal ruling as the wording on Amphibious counter acts what you are saying.

Shallow water p. 88 doesnt say that it effects movement, its a danger to jacks. deep water on the other hand is pretty nasty to anyone without amphibious.

as a ganeral rule you need to talk to your group as to if you play "the forums say,," or only play whats "in print" meaning your reliant on erratas and the books/cards only.

the forums are great for discussing things but like all good forums, its not bulet proof or 100% right all the time. personally if i see Mr Soles make a post, i take it as gospel, other wise - i personally try and only work with whats in print.

poeticruse
03-12-2012, 07:15 PM
The first line of "Shallow water" on p. 88 is "Shallow Water is Rough Terrain", so yes, Shallow Water affects movement, inasmuch as rough terrain affects movement.

The stance of Privateer Press development is that Infernal word is official, Veneficus. Please see the post at the top of this forum.